Future of Ford

Congress asked the "delegation" from the top three that same question today. In fact, one of the "key questions" was: How did you get to Washington today?" Answers from all the "CEO delegates" ranged from: "My corprate jet" to: "The company jet" nobody used commerical transportation to get there... Sort of like the congressional delegation telling us to save gas/drive smaller cars... have you ever looked behind the Capitol at the vast array of black surburbans/yukons,expeditions???? Save money? drive small cars???? The message from all these jerks seems to be: "YOU do it, I'm above that trivial stuff"

I find it "amazing/amusing" that these "better than the average joe" executives find it beneath themselves to beg from Congress while wearing thousand dollar suits, staying in the best hotels and travelling to the "begging station" in private jets... Sort of like the beggar on the street corner driving up in his new Mercedes to rattle a tin cup for quarters.....

snipped-for-privacy@myhouse.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You'll love this:

Freakin' idiots. At this point, I wouldn't buy a car from these morons just on principle.

The New York Times is a Marxist's rag. Their bloggers are just useful dupes. My reply to them would have been more to the tune of. Do you fly commercial or private when you travel back to your district? Were is the outrage of Nancy Palosi demanding a bigger jet so she can travel non stop to California? Are those democrats for real? They are shameless. Can't the see the irony of demanding one standard for everyone else and another one for themselves? Does anyone expect to see Barry Obama (the biggest phony I have ever seen in my 52 years) in a Hybrid motorcade? Although I am sure he will demand every one else do ride sharing in what ever jap crap he approves of. He can just bite me if he thinks I will submit to any of this plans.

Try not to hold back; burying your feelings can damage your health

HEHE yup, said with the conviction to enforce true feelings.

As I said in the original post, just look behind Congress at what they drive, look at how the top 3 got to Washington, Obvious to me none of them have to work for a living. Would be terrible to think the only callouses I got on my hands were from watering my prize orchids or bringing in some firewood after the maid/butler left for the evening. What a terrible life :)

snipped-for-privacy@myhouse.com wrote in news:rpmei4turdgrescof89u0133g5hl13rc7p@

4ax.com:

So let's call a spade a spade. Those three goons should burn in hell right next to Paulson, who should be sitting right next to Bush. None of the aforementioned give a rat's ass about any of us.

Please - prove me wrong.

Patrick, dwight, Michael (if y'all are still here) - comments?

The whole problem with Detroit is that they keep giving us the vehicles we want, not the vehicles we should have or that would make sense in a changing world.

The American buying public is a fickle beast, and Detroit has always been a beat behind in the dance. We wanted SUVs and horsepower, they set about giving us that. A small minority decided to be environmentally aware, so they started to develop green vehicles as a small minority of their offerings.

I don't blame Detroit for building cars to suit the market.

Problem is, the market did an about-face, and we all know that Detroit doesn't (can't) react that fast. What do they do with all of the leftover SUVs, while they scramble to remake the product line? We all get to feel self-righteous, while Detroit is left holding the bag that used to be our wish list.

I say, give 'em the damn loan, make sure that they survive, and give them time to develop the vehicles of the future. GM is already gambling everything on the Volt, even while Ford has just unveiled the 2010 Mustang. You can bet that next year's auto show will feature a somewhat different focus from Detroit.

dwight

Sounds about what Pelosi wants. I'm tired of hearing how the sky is falling and our taxes are needed for MORE government programs! Let them go into chapter 11, get rid of all the FAT (we know it floats to the top) and that includes the UAW too. I swear the Dims are going to push a LITTLE too much.

Oh, come on... The Dims? Cute.

Bush. $700,000,000.00+. Blame the Dims.

dwight

re: the "greed" of the big 3 continuing to offer the "big ones" like Escalade with higher profit margins rather than making only small cars. Yup, I can go back into my piles of old car mags and see the same thread...back when the Falcon, Valiant & Corvair came out (1960): editorials on how the companies were being "forced" (by market share going to imports) to offer smaller, more fuel efficient cars but they had almost as many parts and cost almost to build as a "full size" car hence a thinner profit.

But really, were Americans then worried about operating costs when gas was 40 cents? Naw, people were transitioning from 1 or 2 car families to 2 or 3 cars and in the early stages of vehicles for different purposes: you needed one biggie to hold the entire family on vacations, but Dad didn't need a boat just to commute to work or Mom didn't need a tank to try and squeeze into the mall parking lot. But if you could only have one car, which would it be: a Galaxie for $2500 or a Falcon for $2000?

Anyway, the American makers don't have exclusive rights to "greed". We went from Corollas and B210s to Lexus and Infinity. Now Hyandai has Genesis. Car makers may have a desire to build nicer cars with bigger profit margins.....but people have a tendency to buy as nice a car as they can, too.

Foreign makers aren't holier than Americans: a Smart car may be just the ticket for puttering-around downtown London......but the Brits don't have to worry about taking a 6000 mile vacation from seashore, over the mountains, across the desert, up the coast to Alaska.....which is what Americans demand of our cars. There will always be those with fragile egos who need a Hummer to drive to the drug store -- but if they can't buy a Hummer any more, Toyota will send over some more Land Cruisers or dream-up a Lexus 5000 (and be praised for it).

I'm getting a little tired of the liberal know-all Public Broadcasting types ..... now that they don't have to elect Obama any more, they have time to knock American car companies: I only drive about 300 miles a month so I'll put-up with my Taurus that gets "only" 18 to 20 mpg around town.....and if I take a trip, it gets "only" 26-28 on the highway. That's bad? Only if you're driving around (or being driven) in your government-supplied SUV and charging your gas on a government credit card and don't have a clue about anything except what's best for other people.

Oh that's right I forgot, It's still Bush's fault. =) (Probably will be for at least four more more years too) There's plenty of blame to go around for all of Washington, just happens that most of them are Demos. There, better? ;)

Don't you think this crap all started with the housing market running out of control? And sorry to say but, these people who over extended themselves, buying over priced homes, and the bankers selling ILL packages, just need to cut their losses and move on. Let the market reset to a lower level (houses back down to 150K or what ever)so people who really CAN pay for a home get those loans and get this thing going again.

Calm down. My only point was that you single out the Democrats for blame, when "there's plenty to go around, just happens that most of them are Demos."

That's wanting cake and eating it, too.

Let's see - the Democrats are to blame. The American people are to blame. Greedy business types are to blame. Great. Now we know who to blame.

Doesn't solve any problems, but I certainly feel better.

dwight

I'm very calm, did you miss the "wink wink"?

Now now, don't fret, Mother Pelosi is going to make it all better. Just look out for Uncle Barney 8O

No, still too simplistic. It's going to take actual leadership in Washington, together with a rejuvenation and resolve on the part of the business community, with a side order of sacrifice and a disavowal of the creed of instant gratification by the people. We're all in this together, no matter how we came to be here.

To point to the Democrats, or to the Republicans, or to Mr. & Mrs. Borrower as the cause of the underlying rot in the economy is facile and irrelevant. The fact is, this economy threatens all of us (hell, I feel threatened).

You can point to Pelosi and Frank as some sort of culprits, but I'm thankful that somebody - anybody - wants to actually DO something about it, as opposed to going off on early retirement.

dwight

I thought that the point was about who was asking for money from who? Righteous indignation is one thing.... pissing on the boot that's attached to the ass you need to kiss... that's something altogether different.

If you want to borrow money from me and I ask you a question about it, all you need to do is get a little huffy for the answer to be "NO". It looks like Canada is waiting to see what the US does... For my part - every time I get myself into a bind, it has been up to ME to get myself out of it.... Catch my drift?

Who pissed on a boot?

Sure, and, as a Republican and a fiscal conservative, it pains me to say that we should make the loan. In theory, a business - any business - should rise or fall on its own merits, but these automakers have become an integral part of the nation's economy, its security, and its future self-reliance. To say that they should be allowed to fail is just ignoring the larger picture.

dwight

This is all pretty moot considering Nancy just wants to see some kind of essay from maybe some of the B3 CEOs before she gives out the checks. I think you got me all wrong anyways cause what I was saying was to just let capitalism run its course. I guess we'll never know how that played.

Well, if we look up in the thread, we see that Columbotrek feels that the automakers should be above restraint... that they should counter the question about corporate jet usage with a "tit-for-tat" comeback.... If the reps from the big 3 want to look like paupers, the least they could do is act the part....

I'm not saying that these corporations should be allowed to fail, but it is about this time - after all these years of self indulgence - after all these years of corporate management and the unions hosing down their customers - that some kind of public watchdog... a very big, very nasty, very vicious and unforgiving public watchdog get's put in place....

The US has been a very powerful force in the modern world... The US has shaped much of the world as we know it. But now it is starting to look like some errant priest - spreading good will through the community with one hand down the alterboys trousers.

If these companies want public money, the first thing they need to do is start accounting for their own money. Ever put a business plan together? Ever done projections without fudging the numbers? Instead of pretending to be pretty faces, these guys need to become business LEADERS.. If you want or need more cash - show us what you can do with the cash you got... Anything else is going to be good money after bad.

What has been stated thus far? Can you give me some loot - I need to gas up my jet. If you give me enough, maybe I might spread some of it around.

Fuck me... the simplest shit just starts to take on a life of it's own...

Pretty much my thoughts also. If I go to a bank to borrow money, I have to prove that I can pay it back, I have to show the banker exactly what I am going to do with "his" money and it has to be something that "HE" agrees with me spending "HIS" money on. It has to be a sound investment on his part, or at least I have to prove to him that it is an investment he will get returned to him with interest. What I see from the Detroit "trinity" is that they want to get some of the loot that Wall Street started spending and they want to tell Congress that they "need" it to survive. When asked why they need it and what they plan to do with it, they stammer and stutter and don't have an answer. I remember when my grandmother gave my cousin a cookie and he came outside eating it, Immediately I ran inside to get mine. When Grandma asked if I had cleaned the bedroom and made the bed I didn't have a clue what she was asking that for. Heck, my cousin had already did that. Funny, now I realize why he got that cookie, but back then, I just wanted my share and I didn't have any idea what it took to get it or why my cousin got one. The Detroit Trinity flew to congress asking for their cookie because they saw their cousin on Wall street munching away and they felt it was their "right" to have some too.

Congress is giving away "MY" cookies, I have virtually no say-so in how they do it and I'm supposed to jump for joy that they make rules to give them away with no regard to my "ownership" of the whole damned bag that they are holding in their hands.

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!! Detroit needs to show some responsibility for what they have before they start begging for mine !!!!!!!!!!! I dont want them to fail, it'll put a lot of people out of jobs, but I dont want to support a fiscally irresponsible conglomerate that squanders my money. Welfare does a good enough job of that without spreading it to the managing class of the working population!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!