Ping NoOp Patrick -- 50 Fastest Shootout

Hi Patrick.

Did you see the mention in the latest Hemmings Muscle Machines about the Buickhorsepower.com effort to assemble as many cars as possible from the 1984 "50 Fastest Muscle Cars" list, for a box stock shootout? According to this webpage --

formatting link
they're aiming for Wednesday and Thursday June 28 and June 29 9:00AM until noon at Indianapolis Raceway Park. Spike TV's "MuscleCarshow" is covering it. (That's the new show on the former TNN, wherethe bald guy Lou is always yelling, and the other guy Jared is alwaysspooning Bondo onto the project cars.) According to HMM there will be tech inspections to check for stock-ness, but of course cheating will be impossible to prevent. It should be interesting, regardless.

Here's the "50 Fastest" list they're working off of:

formatting link

Reply to
one80out
Loading thread data ...

Hey, 180. Good to talk to you again!

No. Still trying to catch up on my reading since coming back from the war.

formatting link
-- they're aiming for Wednesday and Thursday June 28 and June 29 9:00> AM until noon at Indianapolis Raceway Park. Spike TV's "MuscleCar> show" is covering it. (That's the new show on the former TNN, where> the bald guy Lou is always yelling, and the other guy Jared is always> spooning Bondo onto the project cars.) Thanks! I'll put a note on my calander.

Except for the Cat 2+2 running 106 mph, this list looks legit/believeable.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

formatting link
> -- they're aiming for Wednesday and Thursday June 28 and June 29 9:00> > AM until noon at Indianapolis Raceway Park. Spike TV's "MuscleCar> > show" is covering it. (That's the new show on the former TNN, where> > the bald guy Lou is always yelling, and the other guy Jared is always> > spooning Bondo onto the project cars.)>

Lots of cars were faster than the last ones they list. No 375 HP Nova, no

375 HP Camaro. All the 65 to 70 big HP Vetts could wipe out most of cars listed from 4 down if they were ordered right. But they list a 72 low compression automatic pig.

Al

Reply to
Big Al

formatting link
> > -- they're aiming for Wednesday and Thursday June 28 and June 29 9:00> > > AM until noon at Indianapolis Raceway Park. Spike TV's "MuscleCar> > > show" is covering it. (That's the new show on the former TNN, where> > > the bald guy Lou is always yelling, and the other guy Jared is always> > > spooning Bondo onto the project cars.)

Al,

Hemmings Muscle Machines, June 2006 issue, page 63, Ray Bohacz's editorial.

"If we subtract the romance from the muscle car era, the truth is most if not all of the vehicles we hold in high esteem were performance dogs right out of the factory."

I would only add "muscle car era 1', because right now we're living in the golden age of horsepower.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

On 9 May 2006 19:19:35 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com puked:

Most, but not all...

I agree.

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

In the same issue of HMM, there's a feature on a '65 2+2. It mentions this same March '65 Car & Driver test, and that they also got a sub-5 second 0-60. It says that the car was prepped by Royal Pontiac, so it was probably far from stock. Royal also prepped the GTO that C & D tested and found to be comparable to a Ferrari 250 GTO. Royal and Jim Wangers (a Pontiac ad man and joint venturer with Royal on the Bobcat GTO's) famously snuck a 421 into that GTO, in place of the stock 389. I don't know what they could have done to the stock 421 in the '65 2 +

2 while retaining showroom new appearance and driveability, but to trap a 3800 lb car at 106 mph they must have done quite a lot.

The writer in the Buickhorsepower.com page that I linked to in my original post says that this 50 Fastest list originally appeared in Car Review magazine in 1984, and was culled entirely from magazine road tests from "in the day." So calling it the "50 Fastest" without an asterisk explaining its origins is misleading. It should really be called "The 50 Fastest Road Test Quarter Mile Times that One Ragazine Writer Could Get His Hands On in 1984."

First, Ray Bohacz is a cranky know-it-all who doesn't seem to like the old heaps all that much. Second, the vehicles we hold in high esteem are by definition the pavement buckling monsters, and these were no "dogs." Yeah, I'll take the hit on the coulda been a contenduh Boss

429, and I don't even include all the 383 Road Runners, 396/325 Chevelles, or base model GTO's in the "high esteem" category. But to call any 426 Hemi, 440-6v, 340-6v, LS6, 427/425, 427/435, 396/375, 327/375, 327/365, Z/28, Ram Air II, Ram Air IV, 455 Stage I, 428 Cobra Jet, 427-8v, or Boss 351 -- much less the exotics like the Cobras, the ZL-1s, L-88s, and SOHC 427s, or the factory Super Stock specials -- a "performance dog" is just plain wrong.

There's a lot of apples and oranges going on in trying to compare the two. Yes, 400 hp is now commonplace, in the spec sheets anyway, and with the pricing of the GTO and the DC R/Ts it is just about working class available. And you also get 20+ mpg, a 100,000 mile warranty, excellent brakes and handling, AC, 10-speaker stereos, and leather seating. Still, for pure cheap thrills, give me a slobbering tire smoking edition of any of the cars from my "most esteemed" list, any day. Their crudeness and the fact that they DON'T have all the modern advantages is half the fun.

180 Out
Reply to
one80out

Hey Patrick, speaking of Old School vs. New, remember this thread, from March 2004?:

formatting link
Here's the current version of the "Fastest Acceleration Production Cars" that you quoted from in a post in that March 2004 thread:
formatting link
The cutoff is 14.00 seconds.

Here are the 10 second cars:

Year Make Model Engine HP ET Trap speed Source

1968 Plymouth S/S Barracuda 426 Hemi V8 525 ** 10.5 130 MCR 1968 Dodge S/S Hemi Dart 426 Hemi V8 525 ** 10.5 129 MCR 1969 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray ZL1 427 V8 430 ** 10.6 132 MT 2006 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 8.0L W16 1001 10.8 140 CD

I should email the times for those '60's era "dogs" to Ray Bohacz. On the other hand, the list is getting considerably top-heavy with late models.

180 Out
Reply to
one80out

Speaking of cars left off the list, by coincidence, on the subway this morning I was reading Ro McGonegal's "Back in the Day" column in the current (June '06) issue of Popular Hot Rodding. One subject is his eye-witness account of a magazine drag test performed on a '69 Yenko

427/425 COPO Camaro for the July '69 issue of Super Stock & Drag Illustrated. Here are some excerpts:

"Save for its intake manifold, the L72 engine was an all-iron big-block that was factory rated at 425 hp. It included an 800-cfm Holley carburetor and dual-point ignition, maintained a compression ratio of

11.0:1, and was commanded by a solid lifter flat tappet camshaft with 316 degrees duration and a 0.520-inch lift. A forged rotating assembly underwrote the purpose. . . . [The L72 Camaro package] came through with clunky cast-iron manifolds and tiny exhaust pipes routed for convenience sake through that stubborn POS cross-flow muffler. When I got on the gas hard, the thing hissed funky like a berserk vacuum cleaner. [This is a description of Ro's own L72 '69 Camaro.] . . .

"According to the Yenko propaganda, their car had not been salved to perform its best. The changes included clips on the front half of the leaf springs to staunch windup when slicks were biting, and Doug Thorley's exhaust panacea. . . . The engine in our gold/white-striped test car had been subjected to the Minimal Diddle: the spark plugs were the ones driven in; it had 16 degrees at the crank and 24 in the distributor, but the carburetor, cylinder heads, and cam timing were supposedly unmolested. . . . [Ro adds that Yenko prohibited flat shifting for this test.]

"[O]n a dreary, moist day in April [a] raw breeze blew down the track toward the starting line, but the light rain had ceased. Ambient was in the 50s. [Yenko-supplied SS/E race driver Ed] Hedrick staged on the line and made an exploratory pass: 14.02/102.50. You could almost see the drool. Getting serious, [Yenko employee Dick] Williams pumped the F70x15 Wide Ovals (not Polyglas) to 28 psi. Hedrick burned them in, staged, drove the car out about 50 feet and then stood on it. Each time he changed up, the tires squealed long and healthy. The L72 ran

12.80/108.56.

"For try three, [Williams removed the air cleaner and left the baseplate that sealed to the hood, but kept the headers capped. Hedrick changed his style, coming out at 1,500 rpm. The big motor liked this and responded with a 12.59/108.17. Patience for the street tires had worn as thin as their tread. We . . . screwed on the 8-inch wide

7.80-8.00x15 M&H slicks (at 9.5 psi). Williams stuck on [some 6"] collector extensions. . . . Open headers and slick tires markedly improved the Camaro's performance: 12.15/114.14. . . .

"We bumped the timing 2 degrees. Ed changed gears at 6,500 rpm and ran a 12.10/114/60. And for that old (draft-dodger) college try, Hedrick did the burnout ritual, staged, and everything clicked right for an

11.94 at 114.50. . . ."

OK, so an L72 Camaro was not common (between 500 and 1000 for '69).*** And slicks and open headers (or dual points for that matter) were not factory equipment. Still, an 11.94 at 114.50 for a production line car with open headers, an 8" slick, and a timing bump, are some awesome numbers.

Here are some more specs on the L72, from

formatting link
: RPO L-72 427/425 engine, which includes a four bolt main block, 11:1 forged aluminum pistons, mechanical camshaft (.520in, 316 degree duration intake, 302 degree exhaust) and forged steel crank. Big Valve Heads 2.19in intake and 1.72 exhaust), A Holley 780 vacuum secondary carburetor, an aluminum intake (163), chrome valve covers, and single point aluminum distributor (499) were also included.

(I don't know what the "(163)" or "(400)" numbers mean.)

*** The L72 was a regular production order ("RPO") on the '66 Corvette and the '66-'69 Impala, and a central office production order ("COPO") on '68-'69 Camaros and about 50 '69 Chevelles.

Well I'm rambling here. Time to hit the "send" button.

180 Out
Reply to
one80out

I can only say the editor included/printed his article so the magazine staff must be in agreement. We'll have to see if they receive flack from readers next month.

He wrote "right out of the factory". I gathered he meant unmolested factory stock. In that state of tune, most, even the big dogs, ran 90 mph trap speeds. Very few ran much over 100. Some Hemi cars posted

103-105 and of course some of the Vettes ran as strong as the Hemis or a little stronger. Of course the "exotics", factory drag cars, and factory speacials like the ZL-1s were much faster. As you know nowadays running 90s straight off the floor is no big deal. Even posting low 100s isn't all that impressive. That's why my Cobra is in need of about an additional 50 rear-wheel horsepower... it's a dog now.

Here's a thought: 20 years ago, a fuel injected 5-oh was considered "refined." And 20 years from now I'm sure a 2006 performance car will be considered "crude." Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

I won't try to tell you those numbers are dog-like. However, I'll will use them to reiterate my claim that we are now living in the golden age of horsepower. Cases in point: LS1 twins ran 108-112 mph dead stock. GM High Tech magazine performance took a 6-speed Camaro off the showroom floor and ran 12.80s at around 112; it was unmolested and running street tires. And the Terminators run 110-113 mph traps dead stock. Even the new 3-valve GT Mustangs with just a chip and some weight tossed out have run 108. And all of them are so tame your Grandma could drive them any of them to church on Sunday. Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.