Froze caliper bleeder screw

I've never lost a customer either. And the hundreds are likely closer to thousands .25 years worth.

At the dealership where I was service manager we checked the brakes twice a year.On every regular customer's car. It was part of the scheduled maintenance, and it was done. Over 650 active customer files that I saw at least 4 times a year.Ten years at that one dealership, which grew from myself and one apprentice to 6 mechanics in that 10 years - which was less than half my years in the business.

What I found works is close to your solution. Put a "c" clamp on the caliper and extend the piston to the point equivalent to a fully worn set of pads (using the pedal), then crack the line loose and squeaze the piston back in. ALL air in the calper goes bye-bye.

|I've never lost a customer either. And the hundreds are likely closer |to thousands .25 years worth.

many many many very many people whose car is out of warranty or such will stop going to the Dealer to have their autos serviced. In my case, my Dealer is 1/2 hour or more away. Furthermore, for what he charges for 1 hour of labor, I can about do an entire tune up on my car in parts.

Dealer is too expensive for most people. Only the rich can afford to go to Dealer Service Dept. every time vehicle hiccups.

What do you think these n/g forums are for anyhow. So everybody can help everybody else repair their own vehicles, rotating the Dealer with his overpriced labor and overpriced parts out of the picture.

Yes you have better tools, all the parts, but you COST TOO MUCH for the average Joe.

Average Joe Lg

Apply a little trans fluid and let it sit for a couple hours. It's a trick I've used in self-serve salvage yards for years; they usually don't allow torches in, but they are notorious for never completely draining the wrecks. A little heat would of course speed things up. It's made the difference on more than one occasion between getting skunked in the 'yards or going home with that Dana 60 or 9".

Mark

Yes, that usually does come off better. I don't know why. But anyway, if you can afford to be patient keep at it with penetrating oil and use a good quality six-point socket over the bleeder screw. The caliper is cast iron, and you will not hurt it with heat. However, there are rubber parts around that you could hurt. Keep it localized.

|I know of lots of dead people because of failed brakes. Entire |families. Their own fault for not maintaining them properly, I |suppose.

Catastophic brake failure directly resulting in the death of a vehicle occupant is so rare now as to be statistically insignificant, at least in the South. Unless you are one of the few. Brakes are just that good, and better car control - suspenions, tires etc - take care of most of the remaining failures. You REALLY would have to abuse and neglect a modern brake system, then drive way over your head to get in serious trouble.

Is it any different in the Rust Belt?

Rex in Fort Worth

That only makes way too much sense to use the piston to bleed the reservoir I will try that next time

MAPP gas it. Hotter than Propane.

Let me guess. You were hit by a falling toilet seat coming back to earth from outer space, and are now forced to walk around reaping souls from those about to die?

I rarely hang around much with dead people, this may change in a few more decades.

As for dead people due to brake failure, if you mean mechanical failure of the brake system [as opposed to failure of the loose nut behind the wheel], you must make it a point to get to know a rather small statistical sample of causes of auto death. Or have a somewhat loose meaning for "lots".

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Currently we're seeing brake line failure on vehicles as new as

1995 model year. Typical symptoms would be brake warning light on, pedal goes lower than normal. GMs and Asian imports seem to be the more frequent failures. No catastophic failures as Mr. Glickman implies.

FWIW, I've been heating the bleeder boss on brake calipers for as long as disc brakes became mainstream, heat them to a dull red in many cases, never have had or heard of any failure. Just doesn't happen.

Also, typically, brake calipers are cast steel, not cast iron.

|Currently we're seeing brake line failure on vehicles as new as |1995 model year. Typical symptoms would be brake warning light |on, pedal goes lower than normal. GMs and Asian imports seem to |be the more frequent failures. |No catastophic failures as Mr. Glickman implies. | |FWIW, I've been heating the bleeder boss on brake calipers for as |long as disc brakes became mainstream, heat them to a dull red in |many cases, never have had or heard of any failure. Just doesn't |happen. | |Also, typically, brake calipers are cast steel, not cast iron.

I might add that the official Police Accident Report, as indicated in the Chicago Tribune, stated brake failure as the cause of the accident/deaths.

Calipers? I don't know what my new ones are made out of. I have alloy wheels. The calipers are the same color ( painted ??? ).

Lg

Oxy-actylene torch w/ a welding tip is the way to heat it. Very high heat, very locally applied on th ecaliper right next to it. Don't apply it too long though, as you do not want to overheat the caliper. turn it w/ a 6 point deep socket.

P-Blaster or Kroil penetrant may also do the job.

Oxy-actylene -- hotter and smaller more concentrated flame! Just don't heat it too long, and use a 6 point deep socket

It was VERY interesting when I was service Manager at the Toyota dealership. You heard of retention rate? Basically it is the percentage of vehicles sold still coming back for service 3 years after sale. For a good part of my 10 years as manager, our retention rate was over 100%, meaning we were servicing more cars than we sold. You have to give the customer good value to manage that. We were very successful, but I had some philosophical differences with the boss. He wasn't satisfied with the profitability - and wanted changes made I was not willing to make - so I left. And he was making GOOD money. Absorption rates in excess of 80% consistently, and sometimes over 100%. Went downhill after I left. Lost a lot of previously happy customers.

|>Yes you have better tools, all the parts, but you COST TOO MUCH for |>the average Joe. |>

| |It was VERY interesting when I was service Manager at the Toyota |dealership. You heard of retention rate? Basically it is the |percentage of vehicles sold still coming back for service 3 years |after sale. For a good part of my 10 years as manager, our retention |rate was over 100%, meaning we were servicing more cars than we sold. |You have to give the customer good value to manage that. |We were very successful, but I had some philosophical differences with |the boss. He wasn't satisfied with the profitability - and wanted |changes made I was not willing to make - so I left. |And he was making GOOD money. Absorption rates in excess of 80% |consistently, and sometimes over 100%. |Went downhill after I left. Lost a lot of previously happy customers. |>Average Joe |>Lg

Hi clare,

I can tell you know what you are doing. I've read some of your posts elsewhere in google archives. Lots of people here know what they are doing, and I am here to -learn- what I can, and help when I can.

Today I went to dealer. Almost never do that, but was a "free" air bag recall fix from factory. I am not spending a penny I said. Fine. Before I left, I had bought a 2003 Mercury Sable ;-\ Dealer Service Techs _showed_ me what was wrong with my car. Not just words, but took me out on the floor, handed me a flashlight, and pointed with their screwdrivers at trouble spots. Yep, I said, you are right.

I agree the Service Techs at _this_ dealership are superior to any others I have encountered. These guys are _good_, and I tell them that, and I reward them with A+ report cards when Ford sends me a Customer Satisfaction letter/survey. I also reward them when I come back time after time to purchase new cars from them.

OTOH, you have seen the posts of "mechanics" claiming the need for new engines, without even looking at them. Oh yeah, that clicking noise, need a new engine, thrown rod.

So my idea is find a good Dealer, and stick with them. One hand washes the other. You are a good customer because they give you GOOD SERVICE. That is the way business is supposed to work.

But, I told the Svc Mgr I was going to do routine maintenance on this car, and he said it only requires a tune up at 100,000 miles. But I will change the oil, keep corrosion away, watch for trouble spots, and so on. And I have a 72 month warranty, IIRC, bumper to bumper, $100 deductible. So if I blow an engine, they fix it for $100. Not too shabby.

Now I have spent most of my Life with beaters/junkers. That is how I got into the hobby. Trying to get them to run so I could drive to work and the grocery store. My first *car* cost me $20 cash. I was told by a mechanic: "That thing was not only shot at, it was HIT !"

And so my life long hobby began.

I have a good Dealer now, but really, $548 to replace a radiator ??? come on now. No I couldn't do it myself, but was NOT going to fork over that $$$$ for a bloody leak. Or another $163 for a bent steering knuckle.

So as you see, sometimes they get my business, for the other stuff, I would rather do it myself. I can tell if I have the tools and knowledge to handle the job. If it is above my skills level, or I don't have the proper time and tools, they get the work. If it is something easy, I do the work.

That's it in a nutshell. Now I have a good warranty, and of course since I am paying for the extended warranty, will let Dealer handle problems covered under warranty. But the Tracer was OUT of warranty, and I was damned if I was going to throw good money after bad.

It was a tough decision. What do I do? Buy another car? Or fix up the rust bucket.

Rust bucket was ready for new hoses, wires, all kinds of stuff. But I could have run it forever if I was willing to shell out $$$ every year to keep it on the road. In this case, I decided to toss it. It was a tough call, a close call, and took a lot of hard thinking. It isn't easy to make a decision like this. But having worked on the Tracer for as long as I had, I knew the faults were going to begin coming in waves. Today this, tomorrow something else. It would nickle and dime me to death, and I didn't think it was a good idea.

It was -my- decision. I decided to chuck the Tracer. Shame on me. But it would have cost more to fix it up than Kelley's Blue book said it was worth ! Tough decisions. Real tough. Hard thinking. But I feel like I made the right decision -this- time. 1 car family, this car -has- to work all the time, and work right. Medical problems make this car a necessity, not a luxury.

Not all dealers are bad. but living on a modest income as I do, I can't afford to keep throwing good money after bad.

If it was a 2nd car, a junker, I would have replaced the stuff myself after buying the parts. But this is our one and only car. No time for me to strip radiators and water pumps and have it ready to go in a couple hours when somebody has to go somewhere.

Lg

here's some pictures of the underside of a 97 crownvic with rotted brake lines. (the car has lived in the salt belt it's entire life.)

the car looks clean from the top. no visible rust present on the lip on the underside of the doors either.

>Is it any different in the Rust Belt?

|some people don't seem to care about the condition of their cars braking |system. darwins theory of natural selection does slowly weed out some of |the offenders though.

Out of sight, out of mind.

40,000 deaths on America's highways every year. Some percentage of those have to be from brake failure. To put that in perspective, 12,000 Tangos died in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Lg

Yes. But, I mentioned MAPP gas because you can use a welding tip as well, and it is available at most hardware stores for the average individual.