The stupidity continues

But even Toyota can't do that outside the Prius, even using hybrid synergy drive.

Our first hybrid, a 2003 Prius, was bought even though it was more expensive than the Scion xB we were considering. We kept careful records and the Prius came within $50 of parity in the first year. The replacement tires pushed us over but it also gave us LLR, excellent tires that paid off over the following years. But it also reignited a love of cars that I last felt with my 1966, VW MicroBus.

Prius studies, especially those inspired by fuel savings, have a direct relief to our household budget. Compared to ordinary gasser and diesel owners, Prius owners learn to exploit subtle aspects of warm- up, driving profiles, lubrication, tires, and aerodynamics to save a buck. This earns our self-confidence, our smug knowledge that we know more than those stuck with inefficient transportation.

One of the ironies is we often shop in the same 'speed shops' and a few technical publications as some of our lead-footed coworkers. But instead of buying stuff to burn more gas, we buy stuff to save gas.

Bob Wilson

While the Toyota Prius is the top fuel efficient mass produced car in the USA, globally,the Toyota Prius fuel efficiency performance is not unique.

Toyota's hybrid synergy drive also faces competing technologies which have the potential to deliver similar fuel efficiency.

In Europe, the VW Polo Bluemotion hybrid reportedly can match Toyota Prius hybrid synergy drive's FE performance

In Japan, the Honda Hybrid Fit/Shuttle mild hybrid FE matches or is very close to that of the Toyota Prius.

In the USA, Cleanmpg.com forums are reporting that the

(Hymotion) PHEV versions of the Prius can reportedly gets up to 100 mpg. In the next few years China's BYD and Korea's Hyundai hybrids will likely challenge the Prius' dominance as the world's most fuel efficient mass produced vehicle. Realizing that the position as the leader will face signficant challenges in the future, Toyota is planning to exploit the Prius global market penetration and name recognition by expanding its Prius product line - one of them is a smaller version of the Prius (Yaris/Auris size) that many believe will get higher MPGs than the 3rd Gen Prius.

The proposed fuel efficiency to 56 mpg by 2025 is a composite EPA fleet fuel efficiency rating so some vehicles may get lower mpg while other vehicles may get higher mpgs. The GM, Ford, Chrysler were fighting the higher FE standards because it could potentially limit the sales and raise the cost of hi-profit margin truck/suv market segment in the USA.

Toyota can't make the hybrid synergy drive efficiencies scale well. They've proven that by implementing it outside the Prius with only modest results.

. . .

Electric vehicle technologies have advanced so the Leaf and Tesla are considerably advanced over what had been available before. Yet they still suffer from long refueling times. So the Toyota Plug-in Prius is planned for 2012 and pre-production versions are running around . . . competition for the Chevy Volt.

So far, we keep finding hybrids continue to lead in vehicle classes per

Small Cars - Leaf, Smartfortwo electric, Civic Hybrid, Volt Family Sedans - Prius, Mercury Milan/Ford Fusion hybrid, Honda Insight Pickups - Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, Chevy Silverado hybrid SUVs - Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner hybrid, Mazda Tribute hybrid, Lexus RX 450h

Toyota has no monopoly on hybrids but they do have the highest mileage, family sedan, the Prius which is not an exception in 'alt.autos.toyota.prius.'

Bob Wilson

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you.

Minor typo but it is good to see you're finally tweaked your USENET setting to keep them around. That automatic delete of their insults after about a week is so childish of trolls. Still, we can have fun with the self-deleting messages.

Bob Wilson

Well 'Elmo,' in seven days, your original posting will disappear and only my quote of your message will remain.

I suggest you spend more time in political discussion groups where your posts will be well received and enjoy the attention they deserve. Your ignorance about the Prius and all things auto really has no place here.

Talking about Prius, the June sales came in and this is likely to be the lowest monthly rate since the Tsunami:

• 4,340 - June 2011
• 6,924 - May 2011
• 12,447 - April 2011
• 18,605 - March 2011

When the May numbers came out, there were a few snarky articles that the hybrids were done. But something else is happening and other hybrids are filling in the Toyota gap. If Toyota production resumes and the gap fillers remain viable, we're looking at breaking the 3% take barrier.

Adoption of a new technology often follows an "S" shaped curve. Now that others have figured out how to make competitive hybrids, high fuel prices and more ramp up the market penetration.

Bob Wilson

So, you're admitting that you pollute the netwaves with whatever YOU want to say, regardless of the facts. That you don't hesitate to make things up for your own entertainment.

You are the definition of a troll...

In the meantime, that doesn't change the fact that Toyota's hybrid synergy drive simply doesn't scale well outside the Prius.

Hell, it doesn't scale well INSIDE the Prius family, as they admit even with the Prius V.

I know more about the Prius than you do. What YOU know about the Prius is what you WANT to know. You don't want to know the pieces that are inconvenient to your political agenda.

You are the very definition of a troll...

. . .

Except Toyota keeps > In article

. . .

I notice you didn't mention the Prius C which is likely to match the first version, Honda Insight mileage and beat it in city testing. The Hybrid Synergy Drive is just one part of a high mileage vehicle.

Rolling and aerodynamic drag are the forces that determine how much energy is needed per mile at any given speed. Newton defined force over distance as work and that is completely independent of the drive train.These drag forces are driven by the vehicle shape, cross- section, weight, and tires. Larger vehicles like the Prius V have higher rolling and aerodynamic drag than the ZVW30, 2010-current Prius which is the tradeoff for more payload. In contrast, the Prius C is a small car and it should have awesome MPG.

The first generation Honda Insight, a two-seater with an aluminum body and aerodynamic shape has very good mileage even though its Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) is less capable than the Prius. The light weight and aerodynamic shape gave it excellent performance at a significant loss of payload. In contrast, the larger Prius out sold and continued long after the first generation Insight was discontinued. Fortunately, the current, 5-seat, Honda Insight carries forward the same architecture, perfect for a head-to-head comparison to the 5-seat, ZVW30 Prius.

So let's do a compare and contrast:

value = (passenger+cargo volume) * MPG

So here is a quick test of your 'auto' skills. Can you identify which vehicles these are and where the mileage numbers came from?

Bob Wilson

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