Toyota Corolla May Be Recalled over Steering Problem

There isn't nor has there every been a toyota with an engine remotely as strong as the brakes. If you stomp on the correct pedal and the brakes have been maintained, the car will stop.

A few facts might be in order here:

You are wrong about what the label said. What was said was:

IMPORTANT SAFETY PRECAUTION Before leaving the driver's seat, you should always :

1) make sure the gear selector lever is engaged in Park 2) set the parking brake fully 3) shut off the ignition. Unexpected and possibly sudden vehicle movement may occur if these precautions are not taken. Refer to your owners manual. for other important safety information.

You might want to consider what Ford actually claimed and quit depending on trail lawyers for your misinformation. See:

My parents and I owned Fords of that vintage (1970-1980). I never had any problem with a Ford automatic jumping out of park. It also seems unlikely that every Ford, no matter which automatic transmission installed could have exactly the same problem. Ford sent the stickers to everyone who owned a Ford with an automatic from that era (more like 21M than 14M). Ford sold vehicles with at least 5 different types of Automatics during the period (FMX - supplied by Borg-Warner, C-3 from Ford of Europe, C-4 and C-6 manufacturerd by Ford in the US, and Jatco - sourced from JATCO in Japan). Some had column shifts, some had floor shifts. They were installed in multiple models with completely different shift linkages. The claim that all these automatics, which were internally quite different, installed in different vehicles, with multiple different shift linkages, all potentially had the same defect is beyond ridiculous. Ford was sure there was not a problem. NHTSA was being run by Claybrook disciples (the Nader shark lawyer team so to speak) at that time. Back then NHTSA was out for automaker blood. The

1980 NHTSA wasn't the sort of "let it slide" organization that allowed Toyota get away with blaming the problems on bad drivers and the internet we have today. The sticker recall was actually a tacit admission by NHTSA that there wasn't a significant problem. Having Ford send out stickers allowed the NHTSA exces to claim they had won a victory, when in fact, they had only managed to waste a lot of the Government's and Ford's time and money. It was a sham recall for a sham problem so as to cover the asses of a bunch of NHTSA execs who tried to trump up a non-problem and justify their existence.

Maybe the Toyota UA problems will turn out to be the same. Maybe not. I still say, if NHTSA had been vigilent in 2007, there would not be a fire storm over Toyota UA problems now.

Ed

Ford did that too...at least for some 4 cylinder vehicles

We also got a sticker warning us not to use certain types of oil in my Dad's 1978 Ford Courier (as I recall we weren't supposed to use any oil that claimed "CC" compliance)..

Ed

While it is an opinion piece, I think it offers an opinion to consider. The column never addresses the truth or untruth of the allegations about Toyota engine speed control problems. It merely highlights how poorly the whole situation has been handled. I can agree with that. It has turned into a witch hunt. If NHTSA had responded properly to the large number of complaints in 2007 and to the warnings from State Farm, it is likely there would not be the massive over reaction we are seeing today. Both Toyota and NHTSA are to blame for the frenzy. Unfortunately for Toyota, they are likely to suffer more than NHTSA. Congress may chide NHTSA for mishandling the complaints, but in the end, government bureaucracies rarely suffer for long. Probably NHTSA will be hyper-sensitive to complaints for a few years. I'd hate to be the next company that gets a lot of complaints....

Ed

The flaw in your argument is obvious. How do we know that any accident is related to a mechanical failure? We only know because 1) of an accident investigation that finds a cause, or 2) because someone in the car survived and told us what happened.

Consider the claims against Toyota - the vehicle speed control problems are alleged to be related to several different factors - pedal entrapment (admitted by Toyota), sticky pedals (admitted by Toyota), and mysterious malfunctions of the electronics (denied by Toyota). If everyone in an accident dies, how would you be able to tell if one or more of these alleged problems was involved?

In the now infamous California accident we had both a cell phone call and a floor mat melted to the pedal that strongly suggested pedal entrapment as the cause (along with driver panic). But how about for hundreds of other accidents involving Toyotas? If the people in the Toyota died, how do you know a problem with vehicle speed control wasn't the cause?

Saying things like "not ONE of those 34 deaths has been PROVEN by the NHTSA to have been the result of ANY kind of mechanical malfunction" is not meaningful (and not true, since I think even you have to agree that the CA incident involved pedal entrapment). Dead people can't tell what happened, and none of the alleged vehicle speed control problem can easily be consistently diagnosed after the crash. The only thing we can go on is the information provided by people that survived Toyota crashes. Many of those incidents are alleged to have been caused by vehicle speed control problems. This clearly implies that some percentage of the fatal crashes also involved vehicle speed control problems.

Ed

Point of order...

Don't you think Toyota has spent time "politicking and whining for handouts?" If not, you might want to check out the following reference:

- Toyota said it had been granted about $296 million in tax incentives by Mississippi

- The incentive package offered to Toyota totals $75 million

- Texas is providing Toyota with $133 million in incentives.

- Some politicians criticized the state's $147 million incentives package to Toyota.

-According to reports in Japan's local media, Toyota is in talks to borrow a little over $2 billion from the state-backed Japan Bank for International Cooperation

The only difference between Toyota and GM is that Toyota has been more successful in recent years. Toyota's whole business was based on Japanese government funding and the exclusion of foreign competition from the Japanese market. I believe that Toyota owes a lot more of their success to government support that GM does.

Ed

So isn't the same true for Fords?

I don't think the problem is that the brakes can't stop the car. I think the problem is that a sudden change in engine speed at an unexpected moment can lead to an accident. Sort of like a barking dog who startles someone who then slips and falls off a roof. The dog bark didn't push the guy off the roof, but it did set off a chain of events that led to an accident.

Ed

"C. E. White" wrote in news:hm10jv$l11$1 @news.eternal-september.org:

The argument is not mine; it is AP's.

The CA incident also involved floor mats that were 1) unsecured, and 2) wrong for the vehicle.

The previous driver of the car in the CA incident had reported a stuck pedal to the dealership's receptionist when he returned the vehicle. This driver did what the cop did not do: He simply held the pedal down until the car stopped, then used the toe of his shoe to pull the pedal back up again to stop the engine from overrevving. If anybody's at fault for the CA incident, it's the dealership, which appears to have been astonishingly negligent in their failure to deal with some very important information related by the previous driver.

You don't need people to tell you what happened; you can use proxy evidence.

For example, the sole purpose of police and insurance crash- investigation teams, or of arson squads, is to reconstruct an incident and determine the cause of it. They're remarkably accurate.

That is the allegation, yes. And a big chunk are statistically extremely likely to be simple driver error.

Right, but don't you think vehicle behavior that increases the likelyhood of a driver error causing an accident is a defect? The whole arguement against SUVs put forth by some was that they were defective becasue they were more likely to roll if a driver made a mistake. It is hard to draw a line between dangerous characteristics that can be rightly called a defect and ones that can be written off as "driveability" issues. I can buy slow to respond throttles as a drivability issue (anyone who drove an Autin-Healey Sprite understands slow to respond throttles). A stuck accelerator pedal or a vehicle that suddenly accelerates for undetermined reasons is over the line.

I think Toyota realized there were UA "concerns" in 2007 (or before). Maybe the people in charge at Toyota truly believed these were merely "drivability issues" and therefore felt justified in dismissing them. I can sort of excuse Toyotas for this, assuming the former NHTSA employees working for Toyota didn't use undo influence to get the investigations closed. I do think NHTSA was wrong to so easily close the investigations. I also think the people in the Toyota governement relations group were idiots for preparing a PowerPoint Presentation that claimed credit for squashing the investigations.

Just to satisfy the doemstic vehcile haters - I understand millions and millions of domestic vehicle have been recalled for defects. I can't see how this excuses Toyota. And I don't think this is an isolated incident. This is not the first "concern" Toyota has tried to sweep under the rug. It is part of the Toyota industrial culture. I understand this and it has not stopped me from recommending some Toyota vehicles to family members. I have not been particualrly worried about UA when I drive a Toyota. And I have told my freinds and family that I wouldn't worry - just don't panic.

Maybe NHTSA should have Toyota send out a sticker. Something like:

IMPORTANT SAFETY PRECAUTION

Before starting the car, you should always :

1) make sure the gear selector lever is engaged in Park 2) set the parking brake fully 3) make sure your seat belt is fastened. Unexpected and possibly sudden vehicle movement may occur if these precautions are not taken.

If you experience a sudden unintended vehicle acceleration even you should:

1) press firmly on the brake 2) move the shift control to neutral 3) ss the vehicle slows pull off the road 4) call you personal injury lawyer and sue somebody

Refer to your owners manual. for other important safety information.

Ed

In message , C. E. White writes

You really are a basket case. You've been told ,I can't count just how many times, that the average Japanese person wants a car smaller than two litres and no one in America makes one. I've pointed out to you that it's illegal to own a car in Japan unless you own a parking space, what's more others have pointed out that fuel is about five times the cost it is in the US. You're just plain thick, or as someone from your side of the pond put it "Stoooooopid.

In message , C. E. White writes

My Toyota's cruise control can either be switched of at the steering wheel or by just touching either the brake or clutch peddles. A woman on American TV today testified that her Lexus just accelerated away, despite which gear she used, including neutral, reverse and park, either she's lying through her teeth or the car had a very weird AT.

and somebody cut her brake lines, wired the ignition to short on, disabled both tranny and brake safety switches...

Then undid all the damage including replacing the brake lines and lost fluid on the wrecked car while nobody was looking.

No way it could be a fool confusing the pedals like all those cases of unintended acceleration on audis before audi put in the interlock.

So far, EVERYTHING about Toyota is an 'opinion piece' without anything pointing one way or the other.

I guess you didn't see where I said if Toyota comes up with a mea culpa, and doesn't do something about it then it's time to go shopping for another car.

At least one that's closer than 2,500 miles away.

I'm biding my time. The Ford thing is a Done Deal. I want to see if Toyota starts backpedaling...

and if I get a recall on my Scion...

Here's a surprise for you all...my '05 Scion is NOT as well made as my previous Toyotas. Don't breath on the sheet metal...

What year is it?

One thing I've noticed, and I don't like, is that it doesn't self cancel once you've gone below ~35 MPH like the told ones did. If you had it set for 70MPH on the highway, (er, Motorway...) and go into town, if you were to hit the lever accidently, it's off to the races. I wonder how many incidents of UA were caused by this?

Tell that to all the dead Toyota victims.

In message , =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_$B%O%A%m%/(B?writes

Not on my car, the cruise control will not function under 27 miles per hour and if engaged whilst driving keeps the speed of that engagement not any previous one.

In message , Ashton Crusher writes

Of which the NHTSA will only confirm 5.