IF you beleive the news media it is based on the latest total as
reported to NHTSA. And it appears to include all UA complaints, not
necessarily ones related to the stuck gas pedals. 13 of the claims are
very recent (and therefore somewhat open to question). 21 are earlier.
(AP) The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the
total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden
acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday.
The government has received complaints during the past three weeks
alleging 13 deaths. The deaths allegedly tied to this problem happened
in nine crashes between 2005 and 2010.
From 2000 to 2009, complaints alleging 21 deaths in Toyota vehicles
had been filed with the government.
And none of the earlier 21 were confirmed as being due to a stuck gas
pedal, even after the passage of as many as nine years.
Note the exquisitely careful language in this AP article: variations of
the word "allege" are placed in every clause that gives events and
Also note one of the last paragraphs, quoting an NHTSA official:
"Transportation Department spokeswoman Olivia Alair said in a statement
it was "normal for NHTSA to receive an increase in consumer complaints
after a recall is announced and the public learns of a safety defect."
I restate, this time with more authority: ONE death confirmed, or NO
deaths confirmed as being directly caused by a stuck gas pedal that was
not due to incorrect or unsecured floor mats.
Do you assert that there are deaths which are /confirmed/ (not simply
"alleged") to have resulted from stuck gas pedals, and that are not due
to incorrect or unsecured floor mats?
If so, I'd like to ask you for your source; I've not personally been
able to find any.
1. where were you when frod was killing HUNDREDS producing vehicles they
KNEW to be defective and on which they'd done their bereaved
payout/recall cost math before they even started production?
2. where do you get your "34" number from?
3. how have you filtered out the idiot factor? ["accelerator failure"
actually = "accelerator + brake + transmission selector + ignition
We covered this already. The number comes from an AP article,
the URL of which was posted some time ago.
Here it is again:
Notice: "ALLEGED". Even in the headline.
Alleged alleged alleged. Repeatedly "alleged".
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:49:34 -0600, AZ Nomad wrote:
The silence is deafening.
Thirty four is the (unsubstantiated) number being reported by the media,
most notablt NBC, which seems to have a hair across it's ass for Toyotas.
At least Brian Williams does.
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:28:11 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Yup. I have had 12 Toyotas. No more than the usual problems any car has,
and most actually better than average, and a couple much better than
average. The oldest car I have is almost completely original except for
brakes and exhaust. The one before that was even better. I have had very
few problems, and the few I have had were often taken care of by Toyota,
in one case even after the warranty had expired. And I don't baby them
either. I drive the wheels off of them, often near the envelope of
specified performance. But I also don't expect a lot of them more than the
solid, dependable transportation they're known for. GM and Ford have had
far, far more transgressions then Toyota, and often as a result of design
flaws and not faulty parts. So far nothing Toyota has issued the recalls
for are an issue of design, but more the onus lies with the parts
And the other side of the coin is that Toyota is NOT GM or Ford. The
family takes pride in the product they offer, and have now lost 'face' due
to the recalls. I fully expect it not to happen again for a long long
time. Rather than move on to the next mistake like GM would do, I'd bet my
last dollar the family, which has again become involved with the day to
day operation of Toyota, will go out of their way to make sure more errors
like this do not occur. I'm betting the temporary shutdown of the US
plants is in part to have the employees go over ALL the parts in inventory
and make sure they are up to spec so nothing like this happens again. And
you can bet CTS's and Dana's parts are going to be inspected and tested
100% or damn near close to make sure Toyota doesn't end up with egg on
it's face again.
Toyota is going to take a hit on the marketplace for all this negative
publicity, and I think that's great, because I'm going to get my next
excellent car from them at the pricing I expect from Toyota. One of the
reasons I bought them all these years is because of the excellent value
they have provided me.
And if none of the things I've said above happen, I'm going to turn my
back on them just the same as I have GM.
Latest news is the Toyota Memo where they all pat themselves on the
back for talking their way out of a recall (which has now backfired)
and saving $100 million in the process. When Ford allegedly did that
with the Pinto you Toyota fan boys were all over Ford for it, where's
your condemnation for Toyota?
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:26:54 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Look up Ford Automatic Transmission Recall. 14M vehicles. Ford printed 14M
stickers for the dash that said "This vehicle may go from Park to Reverse
at any time without warning."
My roomate stuck his to our refrigerator.
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