Dependable Cars JD Power Survey

I take it you don't bother to read other posts on the same topic ?

Graham

"solarsell" wrote

reliability.

The report is for Model year 2003 when the new 9-3 was launched. The reliability should go up for the next few model years as the new model problems are worked out. There is a reason that I refuse to buy the first models of anything.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen they haven't done much to improve the car's reliability/quality. The changes that have been made are new features such as the addition of the new V6. While this is nice, it does little to enhance the initial quality and longterm reliability of the car.

- tex

I'm not so sure GM had a lot to do with it...most of the engineering and design on the 9-3ss came from Sweden, not Detroit. Yes, the epsilon I platform design came from detroit (albeit with heavy input from Sweden), but most everything else was sourced directly from Trollhatten. The epsilon platform actually proved itself quite well. The rest of the car, left much to be desired (as far as quality/reliability were concerned).

Unfortunately, all this will make it all the more difficult for Saab as it fights to make a profit...their insurance premiums against warranty claims will be going up markedly.

- tex

"Tex" wrote

Unfortunately quality is never as good as I want it to be, but I would be surprised if tweaks have not been applied over the pass three years. Just before I started working at my current company, it launched a new model, and I have already modified two castings that have improved the product considerably. Only one of them would I expect a mechanic to notice unless he is looking for it. Adding a rib, or larger flange can make big differences without being noticed.

The epsilon platform is very stiff/solid so the stuff that is attached to it better be attached correctly else there will be squeaks. Couple that with a stiff suspension (in the Aero) and this ups the need for good assembly quality.

Awhile back there was in article in the WSJ where Lutz was bitching about SAAB sourcing its own stereo for the 9-3! Wrong priorities?

Dan

9-3 shares engines with Vauxhall. The 1.8i is straight from Vauxhall. The 9-3 turbo engines were modified by saab, but later stolen back by Vauxhall for some of their models. The 1.9D is common with Fiat and Alfa Romeo. The Cadillac BLS is just a reskinned Saab 9-3.

I suppose that shared engine development makes good sense, like they do for VAG cars: VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat. I think even engines in Bentley and Buggatti are derived from VW engines, just more cylinders bolted on.

I am a "newbie" to this site, having just taken possession of a 2003 Aero/manual shift on Wed. evening. It is my first Saab although my passage through various marques over the past thirty five years have included multiple BMWs, Audis, Volvos, Subarus and I am a six time offender with Alfa Romeo. I found it Ironic that this survey arrived just as my "new" car was dropped off the truck (not literally, thankfully) by the transporter. I bought it unseen other than pictures, from a dealer on the internet although I did review his ratings and a carfax on this vehicle. Thankfully all seems very well and a good bargain, at least initially.

The reason I chose the Saab Aero to substitute for my almost departed

2005 Audi S5 (college tuition) is that I wanted to choose a car that provided (1) good handling and performance (2) vestiges of a factory warranty and (3) fit my budget of under $20K. It is this last criterion that is reflective of the survey. I have laughed off most of the apochryphal stories of Italian car problems as my six alfas have been generally very reiliable but require maintenance that typical American car owners would find curious. The fact that the Saab was viewed in the same fashion did not fit with the anectodal evidence I have gathered from friends and people that I would simply accost as they were getting into or out of their Saab. I generally found good reports and this confirmed that a used Saab was a good value and a good car. The fact that a list price of over $40K fell to well under $20K in just over three years (and that is the retail price) is indicative of the perception, but not necessarily the fact. With only 23K miles, I am looking forward, after a good detail and four new tires, to enjoying the car for years to come and I hope that I am not disappointed.

BTW, although I have read what I could about the car, and I have checked the dealer's records as to service, other than an immediate oil change with Mobil 1, is there any other attention that similar owners believe is needed.

Thanks.

Andy

This is my story: I owned a 2002 Jeep I bought new, but which was a piece of taurine leavings. It had been in the shop 5 times and still did not run correctly. The entire frame would start shaking uncontrollably for no good reason. It is called "death wobble" and the dealer could not fix it. They finally got it going OK, so while the thing still had warranty and some value I decided to part with it. I enjoyed it in a way, but it was like driving a tent.

I went to a place called CarMax and was simply going to sell it for cash and then buy a colleague's Acura Vigor with more miles on it than God. But, at the dealer I saw an '01 9-3 SE. It seemed like it had just come off a new car showroom. The black paint appeared as if it had about a dozen coats of clear on it, and the leather interior was pristine. With 79K on it (half what the Acura had) they were selling it for 12 large--what seemed a fair price.

I gave them the Wrangler, and drove off in the 9-3. My Saab drives like new. It is solid, and very fast (coming from a Jeep). The only drawback is that it is an automatic, but I guess it will not need a clutch anytime soon. A week after I bought the car the rear window dropped. It was fixed under a 30 day warranty. This is about a $500 repair at the Saab dealer, which makes me a little nervous about the other windows.

Immediately after my purchase I took it to the dealer and had them change the serpentine belt, transmission fluid, coolant, they loaded it down with Mobil 1, and so forth. This was a bit under $500.00, about what I expected for a major service.

A few weeks later the check engine light lit. It was the thermostat which the dealer replaced (along with a couple of other associated items) for $400.00. I was not too upset since the car had 80K on it and was 5 years old. Also, the ignition key battery needed replacing. A little message pops up on the radio telling the owner that the battery is going bad--a nice touch.

All and all, I feel pretty satisfied with the Saab. One must expect to spend a little cash on an older car. I have owned Audi (A4) and Mercedes (C 230). My '01 9-3 is every bit as solid as those cars. And it looks very cool, design wise (hatchback).

mp

Not a common repair - don't sweat that one.

I suggest finding an independent _Saab_ mechanic. Prices will be somewhat better.

If they did not change the upper idler pulley along with the belt, you should change it ASAP. It's good for 45K miles or more - but the "or more" varies a lot and failure means you call a tow truck. Only $50 or so for the part at the dealer (less from eeuroparts.com) and easy DIY or may 15 minutes for a Saab mechanic.

Sounds expensive although I guess it depends on the other items. Again, indy Saab mechanic sounding good.

If you survived that many Alfa's then the Saab will seem very reliable (speaking from my experience with older Alfas).

The fact that a list price of over $40K fell to well under $20K

Yes, they do fall fast. A car of a particular level of refinement costs a certain amount to produce. So, Saabs sell for typical prices at the dealer. However, they don't have all that much of a following so the used market is weak. Smart guys take advantage of that.

Not at 23K miles. Just do the normal maint, change the oil regularly with Mobil 1. Plugs are only good for 10K miles in a turbo. Don't fight that - they only cost $2-$3 each and you can change all 4 in about 10 minutes.

You are right about that. 2 years ago I picked up a 00 Viggen with 28k. Best dang thing I ever did. I have a buddy who is into selling used Porsches and a dealer had the Vig on a trade in, all they wanted was to break even which was $18,500. The car is ultra-fast, corners like crazy, and I'm getting

30MPG! Can someone tell me why I would want to buy a new car? Is there a car built today with the Viggens performance level that can achieve 27-30MPG with regularity? I haven't seen one. The 9-3SS looked good but its $$$, gets less milage than a Vig, and is slower. Not knocking it, just not sure why I would want to pay $600 for 4 years or so.

BTW- Only problems were a SID (warranty replace), DI Cassette(recall), and Cat(recall).

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