failure to start

Is that all you did? Anything else?

Put the ignition leads on the cap the wrong way round?

The order of the ignition leads.

No.

Not before the failure to start. I also replaced the air filter and fuel filter after the cap and rotor. However, I tried starting it after replacing the cap and rotor and that's the first it wouldn't start. The fuel filter is in the right direction (in fact, the size different on the bolts ensures that it can't go backwards), and fuel drops out of the fuel lines at the intake.

Yeah, I've re-checked the order probably a dozen times by now. It's nice having the cylinder numbers and firing order printed right on the intake there.

The rotor turns counter-clockwise, right?

The cables all sit nicely, not too tight/short or loose/long, as if they're in the right spot.

Say, Grunff, since you're so well versed in Saabs, would you happen to know if, from top to bottom, the go to plugs 1234 in that order on this engine?

I don't think I put them back on wrong, but maybe 12 and 34 are reversed at the plugs. I'll go check now.

Well, with an I-4 there's precisely 24 possible orderings. I could just start trying them one at a time. Heh. Not fun, but at least doable.

Ok. That's good.

-D

PS. thanks for responding so quickly! (sometimes the time-zone difference is an advantage :-))

Yes, looking from the distributor cap end, anti-clockwise.

Hmm...

Doesn't sound right. The firing order is 1-3-4-2. Number 1 cylinder is at the timing chain end.

Looking at the distributor cap, take the lead coming out of 3 oclock to cyl 1, the lead at 12 oclock to cyl 3, the lead at 9 oclock to cyl 4 and the lead at 6 oclock to cyl 2. 1-3-4-2.

No problem.

You're right. It's 3412. The longer two are on the bottom half of the guides. I realized that when I went back out to it.

Yes.

By the cabin, not the headlights. (left, standing by the passenger panel; right under the number "1" stamped on the intake :-D)

Yeah, that's right. Except that this cap has the 12 oclock post at

10:30 or 11:00. However, this offset matches the old one and the "key" on it lines up with the notch in the metal edge it goes next to.

Still appreciating the assistance,

-D

[...]

Shame on me for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention that I just tried a few other combinations with no noticeable change.

So still not working with 1-3-4-2? Strange.

You have spark. Do you have fuel? Turn the engine over for a few seconds. Then working quickly, remove one of the spark plugs. Does it smell of fuel? Is it wet?

Correct (on both points).

Yes. (I will double check in a moment when someone will turn the key for me)

What about timing? If the timing is off, then this could be the result, right? How can I check? How much money would I need to spend on equipment? (would the equip. be make/model-specific or would it be usable on my domestic (Ford/GM) vehicles as well?) It'd probably be better to have a real mechanic check it than try to do it myself, wouldn't it?

Yes. I also checked, earlier, by disconnecting the fuel line at the intake and watching the fuel issue forth drop-by-drop.

Suppose, for example, the plugs are in the correct order on the cap but are rotated from the position they are supposed to be at. Would this work, or would the plugs fire at the wrong time. I'm thinking that would cause the plugs to fire at the wrong time. Specifically I did end up turning the rotor a little when I put it on and was trying to get the spring clips back on cap. Now I think that may be the problem, and it needs to be reset. Or would the connections and feedback sensors automatically adjust for that?

-D

Yep. I took out all four plugs and watched them simultaneously. A nice little light-show. 1-3-4-2.

I'm afraid I'll have to get it towed to a mechanic.

-D

Yes, it could - but did you do anything to change the timing? Did you loosen the distributor clamp?

You'd need a timing light. Not expensive, and useful on all cars (all cars with adjustable timing at least!)

It isn't difficult, and since you seem to have an inclination towards doing it yourself, I'd say do it yourself.

That would work - it's the order that matters.

??? This sounds interesting. The rotor has a slot in it - it can only go on in one position. This is very important. If the rotor isn't in exactly the right position, then it won't work.

How did you "end up turning the rotor a little"? You pushed it onto the shaft then turned it?

And which spring clips do you mean? The ones holding the cap on?

Take the cap and rotor off. Examine the rotor and teh shaft. Do you see the slot I'm talking about? Push the rotor on so the slot lines up. You shouldn't be able to turn it now. If you can, something is wrong.

No, there's no feedback, nothing. The rotor has to be in the right position.

Before you do that check the rotor - sounds very suspicious to me.

Agreed - also the inside of the cap, wipe it out good. Even then, carbon tracks can be nearly or completely invisible but still cause failure.

I bet he was turning the rotor, with the shaft, against the centrifugal advance springs?

It'll go a few mm.

[snip]

Hang on a minute!

Surely the order being correct will only make sure that the plugs all fire on the same stroke. If you want to make sure that's the correct stroke then there's only one cap terminal that's right for each plug.

It should be fairly easy to work out from basics though if you have time...

Take out the plugs and turn the engine in it's normal direction with a spanner whilst you feel for compression at the plug hole of No 1 cylinder. Once you feel compression, continue to turn the engine until No.1 gets to TDC (presumably there's timing marks on the crank pulley?). Then take off the distributor cap to see which terminal the rotor is pointing to. That's No.1's terminal.

Colin.

You're right - there are two sets of positions which would work and two which wouldn't.

The positions I posted (repeated below) are correct.

Looking at the distributor cap, take the lead coming out of 3 oclock to cyl 1, the lead at 12 oclock to cyl 3, the lead at 9 oclock to cyl 4 and the lead at 6 oclock to cyl 2. 1-3-4-2.

It's a brand-new cap and rotor. Never been used, because the engine won't start.

Yeah. That's what screwed it up, right? It is feasible to think that I can fix that myself, or should I just go ahead and call a real mechanic?

I haven't looked at the car since Tues. night, but I did see the alignment notch when I had the cap and rotor off that afternoon. When aligned properly the rotor doesn't really turn. It moves slightly due to tolerances in the notch.

-D

I didn't loosen anything around the distributor except the two spring clips holding the cap on (and, of course, the plug wires). Does your question imply that loosening the clamp is easy and that can be done to adjust the timing?

Ok. I presume that the light would still be useful, though only to measure, on cars that aren't adjustable, right?

I'm thinking about it. I do have an inclination to learn and do things myself. In fact, I'm taking an auto service class at the local community college, starting at the end of January. I'm debating between potentially digging a deeper hole for myself or just spending some money to have someone else pull me out because is the car isn't mine.

Is it easy to correct the timing as well as check it? (note that I don't have any tools to turn the engine over apart from the car's own ignition and starter and I don't have anything to measure compression with, as Colin suggests)

-D