Used SW2 or SW1; Buying advice

Hoza, try limiting your questions in one post to under five million, then ppl will have time to better answer them, k? Heres some quick answers:

I recall that early Saturns had some serious problems with oil consumption. What years was this a problem? I am hoping to find a

1997 or later car. Was the problem fixed and if so by what model year?

DOHC had some consumption issues, but not all, ask the orig. owner.

I definitely want a 5 speed but I have heard of manual transmissions problems. Is this true and if so what years are best/worst?

Good luck finding a man trand SW2, but they are out there. No yr pref, not aware of problems with man trans except operator error.

I love the plastic body panels but do Saturns have any corrosion issues with their space frames? If so, how do I check?

Never seen a spaceframe rust, but up north where salt is on roads, check under the car on the frame and under the hood and door joints. Saturns are rustproofed in the factory.

How long do the timing chains last? Are they difficult/expensive to repair?

Depending on the orig owner, but the stainless timing chain is designed to last 100+ K miles, however, it is very rare that it will ever need replacing, we have 3 s-cars over 10K on orig chains, no probs.

How about clutches?

How about them Mets? Whats your question? Its a clutch they last as long as clutches do when you drive normal.

Did Saturn offer any type of a sport suspenion on the SW?

SW1 = touring standard suspension, SW2 = sport tuned suspension, bigger sway bar.

What type of fuel economy are people getting on their SW1s or SW2s?

25 mpg up to 40 depending on the driver and man or auto trans.

I notice a fair variation in published fuel economy for SWs, what years are best? I'd like to get an SW2 if the economy doesn't suffer too muuch.

same engine all years. 1.9L 100 or 124 hp. Gain, depends on the driver.

Can I expect a good 200,000 miles out of a well maintained SW with out major problems?

Yes, if you also maintain it well.

What size wheels and tires do the SWs use?

14" on 1's 15" on 2's. Rims or alloys.

What can I expect to pay for a well maintained SW2 with about 75Kmi?

Search the internet and quit asking so many questions. but really, you can find all the answers on the web.

is a good start.

Happy car shopping and enjoy you SW when you get it! marx404

Thanks for the reply marx404,

I could use a bit more information here. If the engine had issues I assume they are not the fault of the owner. Is the oil consumption issue a problem that, if it strikes, will occur early in the engine's life and if one buy's a good SW2 then one can expect normal oil consumption through the life of the engine? I'll be looking at cars with > 50Kmi [of course this all assumes specified maintenance throughout the life of the engine] Problems occuring in such a manner could be due to a quality control problem. Or are you saying that SW2s have a design flaw which causes a higher than normal oil control failure rate and that any SW2 will have a higher than normal chance for developing a problem at some time regardless of maintenance? Or will above normal maintenance prevent the problem from occuring at all? For example, certain Toyota's have a problem with the development with sludge in the oil (even when precsribed oil changes are followed), however 5Kmi change intervals with synthetic motor can prevent the sludge problem.

Is that too many questions in one question? Oh well, you get the gist of what I'm trying to ask.

I thought by going for something made in 1997 or later that oil problem would have been rectified. It seems that Saturn has done many things well and I am somewhat stunned that they couldn't (or chose not to) engineer the problem out. I have heard that changes were made in model year 2000, do you know if the problem was ever fixed?

Maybe an SW1 is a better choice.

Thanks again,

Mike

IMHO the SW1 body type (with manual transmission) is a very good car and (since they are not available new) are well worth a serious search effort to find a good one. Most SW owners know how usable these cars are and they tend not to sell them. IMHO a good one will provide much more value than their market price. Avoid any car that has collision history.

Search Google groups for 'cracked cylinder head' which was a problem due to a casting flaw in some cars in the mid 90s (95-97?) Also search

Make sure to have a complete insection done on the front end to ensure that the steering and suspension and subframe is not bent and has not suffered a collision or hard curb or pothole strike.

I do not like what I have read about the dual cam engines and decided against buying them new and because of the likelyhood that they have been driven in a 'spirited' manner would never consider purchasing one used.

IMHO 'spirited driving' and poor maintenance and long oil change intervals are the cause of most of the reports of excessive oil consumtion and timing chain wear.

IMHO, Look for a low milage SW1 driven by an older person whose main driving goal was good fuel economy. These engines really like low and medium engine speed operation. A complete maintenance and fuel and oil record will often indicate a careful owner and will be a good indication of a desirable car.

I have heard of (mostly low milage) problems with an internal nut? failing and allowing a shaft to contact the case? and causing very serious damage. Do a Google groups search and search.

Do a complete and careful corrosion inspection.

IMHO they last the service life of the engine, IF the engine receives good maintenance and regular oil changes (at 3-4,000 mi intervals) and is not driven hard before warmup or in an overly 'spirited' manner. The timing chain should be replaced at any major rebuild or valve job.

Totally dependant on operator skill and style. My wife has 160,000 mi on original clutch which is still working perfectly but others here are on their third clutch with the same milage, they also report high oil consumption problems!

Our SW1s both have averaged 6.8 lt/100km or 42 mi/imp.gal. in the total life of the cars in mixed but mostly highway use in Canadian climate.

SW2 cars are heavier by ~70 lbs and cruise at ~450 rpm higher RPM. AFAIK, You can expect much higher fuel consumption from a dual cam and in a used car I would also expect much higher oil consumption. A cylinder head rebuild will also cost more.

There are many reports of owners getting well over 300,000 mi and a few reports of close to 500,000 mi.

IMHO you will get better value and service from a good SW1. I would be prepared to pay MORE for an SW1, but the market will usually price a dual cam higher because of image and the higher initial price.. I would not buy an auto trans car and a twin cam would have to be a steal to get my interest.

Good luck, YMMV

My 1998 SW2 generally burns about a quart per 3K miles -- nothing out of the ordinary for older cars.

122K miles on my original clutch and it's in fine shape.

Roughly 26 mpg city, 34 highway.

Can't say for sure re: the SW1. The SW2 came stock with P185/65R15 tires, S speed rated, and 15" diameter, 6" wide, 40mm offset steel wheels. I can tell you (just having done it myself) that P215/50R16 tires on 16" diameter, 7" wide, 42mm offset wheels will fit the car without affecting speedo/odometer accuracy at all (the 0.04% difference is negligible), although if you do that, you might want to avoid going all the way to the steering lock in a tight parking lot type situation.

Can't say for 75K miles, but I got mine with 117K on it for less than $3,000.

-> I am thinking about looking for a good used Saturn wagon. I really

-> like the LW2 but that may not be in my budget and the SW should get

-> better gas milage.

->

-> I have a fair amount of car buying experience but what special problems

-> should I be aware of in searching for a SW wagon?

->

-> I recall that early Saturns had some serious problems with oil

-> consumption. What years was this a problem? I am hoping to find a

-> 1997 or later car. Was the problem fixed and if so by what model year?

->

-> I definitely want a 5 speed but I have heard of manual transmissions

-> problems. Is this true and if so what years are best/worst?

I have a 97 SW1, 5 speed. Not long ago the gear shift handle broke loose from the cables and it cost me about $350.00 to repair it, iirc. Had to take it to the Saturn dealer. No one else could touch it.

Mine is very low mileage (just went over 30,000 last week). Higher mileage vehicles may have problems I haven't yet experienced.

-> I love the plastic body panels but do Saturns have any corrosion issues

-> with their space frames? If so, how do I check?

->

-> How long do the timing chains last? Are they difficult/expensive to

-> repair?

->

-> How about clutches?

->

-> Did Saturn offer any type of a sport suspenion on the SW?

->

-> What type of fuel economy are people getting on their SW1s or SW2s?

I get about 30 mpg combined city/highway, but I'm a conservative driver.

-> I notice a fair variation in published fuel economy for SWs, what years

-> are best? I'd like to get an SW2 if the economy doesn't suffer too

-> muuch.

->

-> Can I expect a good 200,000 miles out of a well maintained SW with out

-> major problems?

->

-> What size wheels and tires do the SWs use?

->

-> What can I expect to pay for a well maintained SW2 with about 75Kmi?

Mike - I drive a 1998 Saturn SW2. I have kept it well maintained .. drove 400 miles last August on 1 tank of gas (Roseburg, OR to Reno). It has 55,000 miles on it now and I am sure it will go another 55,000.... then another 55,000, etc.

Good Luck :-)