pages of head gasket complaints in this newgroup

This everlasting and fairly tiresome (how many times can this be repeated, anyway?) thread finally prompted me to do just this check, for several brands of vehicle, on Google newsgroup search. I got:

Subaru, 757 hits

toyota, 4800 hits

hyundai, 211 hits

honda, 3440 hits

ford, 9260 hits

My query words were, for example: subaru head gasket problem

I don't doubt the Subaru head gasket problem, or that for the other makes. I'm not a Subaru employee, just the pretty satisfied owner of a MY02 Impreza. Yes, it had a slight head gasket external weep, which prompted the dealer to replace both head gaskets under warranty.

Larry Van Wormer

larrrry...if its tiresome , then why bother answering it.?.

.i'm posting these complaints and fixes for the poor smuck who's engine overheats,leaks coolant or otherwise doesn't have a guess at whats wrong...and the mechanic tells hims it's a collapsed hose, a bad water pump or a "maybe we'll just add this coolant additive and hopefully that'll bring ya over the 100,000 warranty so we won't have to replace the gasket,heads or engine". So it's not about you or me Larrrrry....i am a mechanic...its for that bloke who can't turn a wrench....

You are quite right, I shouldn't have bothered. Just wasted more time.

Market share needs to be considered. Data on recent US sales can be found at:

Figures are (2004/05):

Subaru: 0.19 million Toyota: 2.17 m Honda: 1.40 m Ford: 3.03 m

However, long term total sales would be better - but a lot more work to dig up.

Cheers Glenn

Glenn Pure Canberra, Australia Web page:

Right on Glenn, And....it may be tiresome for you, but for me it is a worry....I had a slight weep but the dealer decided to put the conditioner in and not replace the HG.....it is in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of us (percentage wise)

Jim, Redmond,WA

Agreed. Also, the data would have to be scanned, since one obsessed individual can generate a lot of extra hits to skew the data.

I think we can assume that the owners of most makes would be about equally inclined to air their problems on the 'net.

About the only interesting point I took from the data is that Hyundai seems to have very few head gasket failures...

Larry Van Wormer

IMO the coolant conditioner is just a delaying tactic and not a fix. My HG went out at about 125k miles and did have the coolant additive added a long time before that. The indie shop I used told me 125k miles was typ mileage for when HG problems usually shows up.

IMO SOA is using the additive to lower their chances of having to foot the bill when the gasket will fail.

My mechanic said he has never seen a failure of the latest HG design, Rev 3.

Mickey

What year would be with that latest design?

i think amanda the newer engines..04 and later are ok and i wouldn't worry..my forester is a great car, the AWD is the best and it just may save your life. It's only the older engines 96+ which give me pause.

The concerns themselves are certainly NOT tiresome! Mickey, was your head gasket failure an external weep, or an internal failure, loss of compression gases into the coolant? Also, if you don't mind, what year is your OB? I've spent some time searching the 'net, and so far haven't turned up any real evidence of HG failures after MY02. (Mind you,up 'til now, I'd not found any evidence the conditioner failed either. Lots of concerns about it, but no hard evidence.)

Larry Van Wormer

I had someone with a 2000 Outback that had the head gasket go and after many many months of complaints. Got half of it back.

there are potentially a LOT of variables that could drastically skew the data. Distribution of sports models to luxury models with the age demographic thrown in. Sex distribution, AWD vs 2WD (AWD subject to being driven in harsher conditions/off road) global distribution (vehicles used in areas where factory trained service is difficult to obtain). Plus, how many years/models are you willing to average in? Do those Ford hits include Model Ts?

Carl

Larry Van Wormer wrote:

Sure to some of those, but I think the data would be at least approximately useful with much simpler assumptions. If a drive train is properly designed, the cooling system should stay within design limits if properly maintained, and the head gaskets should stay sealed. Even if no factory trained service is available, or 2WD or AWD. Age limits are pretty simple too, can be quite arbitrary. (I'd say, ten year limit)

the results would still contain a significant error, yes. The internet is not typically a source of good statistical data. But gross differences would be meaningful. Small ones would not.

Larry Van Wormer

Ask the mechanic DIPSHIT!

00 OBW, was an small external leak that is typ for SOHC 2.5 engines. If memory serves me correct it was sometime during model yr 02 that the problem was no longer the issue it was prior to that time. From comments at the shop, the normal location for the leak was left (driver) side, rear cyl.

I never actually saw where the leak originated from but could see drops of coolant on one of the bolt heads that hold the lower engine cover at the rear.

I had the Subaru conditioner in the engine prior to the failure. What I did do after having a freak radiator failure was add a over-the

-counter stop leak that had the same appearance. Neither product prevented the HG failure but what did happen was the stop leak plugged up the radiator after almost a yr. Subie radiators have very small passages and can and do get plugged up if normal stop leak products are used. Radiator shop commented on how small the passages were but they did get the radiator cleaned out.

Mickey

No complaint from me. Just reported what I did and I paid the price. Car had more than 100k miles on it at the time so it wasn't a warranty issue. Maybe my comments will inform others what can happen in a situation like this.

It does reinforce the notion that Subie aren't like normal cars. Using non-OEM parts can lead to problems. So far to me this seems to apply to engine related things. With Subies not being popular in some areas it would be nice to be able to go down to local parts store and buy decent qlty aftermarket parts and feel safe that they will work as intended.

Mickey