Re: Using Synthetic Oil in a Subaru <= From a Factory Tech Rep

I was a factory tech rep for one of the major import manufacturers. Here is the lowdown on synthetic oils from the factory, the techs and the dealers. (A) Synthetic oils are superior to dyno oils in all respects with respect to use in autos and trucks except "break in" and some leak problems listed later. (B) Synthetic blends are an advertising and sales idea. The higher the percentage of synthetic the better, not because synthetics are good, which they are, but because dyno oils are bad for your car. This is true for short trips, long trips, frequent trips and storage. (C) The additives in oils are to offset the potential damage from the dyno oils and combinations of dyno oils and other contaminents such as fuel and water. Where does the gunk, dirt, goo and crap you mentioned come from? The engine crankcases of todays cars are essentially sealed as required by federal law. Therefore, all the mentioned above comes from the breakdown and deterioration of the oil and contaminates which you must expect in a car engine such as fuel and water. Lets not get into "blowby" (D) Mechanics, and I have worked with hundreds (if not thousands) tend to stick with what they know from experience. I wish a few more would try learning for a change. My favorite, and often heard statement from a mechanic is "I've done it that way for years". Unfortunately, my reply is often "Well maybe it is about time to learn how to do it correctly". (E) Oil leaks have occured from Synthetic oils in some of the early cars such as Chevy Vega because incompatible materials were used in the manufacture of the seals. This was when synthetic oils were new. No manufacturer would do that today, but where do your replacement seals come from? (F) Even though engines are now built much better than in the past, the "seating of the piston rings" is still a process of wear. The rings and cylinder walls MUST wear slightly to conform to each other to produce a better seal at a near microscopic level. This "seating" process will be slowed down or even prevented by the use of synthetic oil before the "break in" period. A good reference is 7500 (7.5K) to 10000 (10K) miles, then switch to synthetics. (G) Any oil which meets the minimum rating specs of the car manufacurer will NOT void any part of your warranty. Where the less scrupulous manufacturers will try to void your warranty is if you fail to change oil and filter at the manufacturer's required interval (or miss any other required service). This is in spite of the fact that changing dyno oils at 3K is a good idea but compare to synthetic oils which have a conservative average mileage life of

20K to 25K. (H) Success or failure with synthetics and the inconsistent stories you hear are often due to the MANY unaccounted for conditions of the ownership, manufacture, and use of different cars and brands of cars. For example, synthetic oils can't help much in areas which get little or no lubrication from the engine oil, such as valve guides. Depending on make conditions of different cars, valve guides may wear out at nearly the same mileage, but will probably last longer with synthetic oils since even minimal lubrication depends on the quality of the oil. (I) How many know what 10W30 means? It means the oil acts like 10 weight oil (thin oil) in the cold to help allow the engine to crank over and circulate the oil as soon as possible. Warm 10W30 is 30 weight oil. Cold 10W30 oil is 10 weight oil. Thus 10 W(inter) 30 (Summer) oil rating. Therefore synthetics can drop down to 5W20 oil (saves energy and increases mileage) and still provides better lubrication. Needing 40 weight oil means it is time for an engine rebuild (or you are starving your engine for lubrication and hastening the time it will need rebuilding). (J) Dealers and manufacturers do a lot of things to maintain the customers need for parts and service. Just add up the cost of building a car from a list of the parts making up the car, even without labor. A $20K car can cost $100K if bought part by part. Is parts storage that much more expensive than new car storage? No. (K) Would the dealer like to see you come in for oil and filter every 3K or every 15K (synthetic oil average)? Also true of other service shops who might also catch a brake job or front end work, etc. when you visit.

Enough for today. But you get the idea. You are getting what you pay for. How long will you keep the car may be the best guage of which oil to use other than the benefit of cold weather starting and better mileage ( as long as you realize you must drop the weight of the oil). For warranty, check with dealer or manufacturer about weight oil required to maintain warranty. I prefer people do not ask their mechanic. Knowing your warranty is not their job.

RedCrow

Reply to
<RedCrow
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NEVER listen to a word written by anyone who posts anonymously!

Reply to
Anonymous

Anyone else see the irony here?

Reply to
Kevin T

I see a lot of good information, tho hardly new, but accurate and verifiable. I don't see a brand name so I don't see an angle either. Why so cynical?

-C-

Reply to
Clive

the lowdown on

use in autos and trucks

frequent trips and storage.

oils and combinations

Interesting....Ive used regular (non-synthetic) on a 1993 Impreza and now have over 300,000 miles on it. Absolutely NO engine work has been done. What say you now Red?

Paul J

Reply to
Paul Johnson

Probably that you've done a good job of maintaining your car. You're not likely one of those who abuses a car or passes off on oil changes...

Reply to
Cam Penner

"This is in spite of the fact that changing dyno oils at 3K is a good idea but compare to synthetic oils which have a conservative average mileage life of

20K to 25K.??????"

----------------

I wasn't aware we could go 20K to 25K on synthetic oils.

Reply to
Bryce

Hi Paul

I you used synthetic oil you would probably now have done 500 000 miles ;-)

Reply to
Ernest

WHOOOOSH!!!

Reply to
From: Anonymous

The car is in the northeast so the salty roads have dont their damage on the body. It's not the prettiest of cars. Now Im just waiting for the damn car to break down so it can be retired. ha. paul j

Reply to
Paul Johnson

that is BMW's standard recommended service interval on all vehicles and they only spec synthetic

Reply to
330xi

What do you think that proves? Redcrow didn't claim that your experience is impossible with regular oil. What I take from his advice is that synthetic decreases your likelihood of problems, but he guaranteed nothing (good or bad) about regular or synthetic oil.

Reply to
Tom Reingold

BMW also gives free maintenance , right? It's only natural they raise the service intervals so they only have to perform services at the recommended intervalso they onlt have to give 2 free changes.. BMW's are fine machines but I wouldnt trust any oil syn or not to protect for

25k miles. Not to mention how much the filter can handle. I'll stick with changing my syn oil every 5-6000 miles. Not too expensive and I know the engine is protected well. I expect to get 200k miles on my OBW. I hope it still runs but I will just be tired of it by then and want something new-- hopefully a wrangler unlimited with a diesel!!!!
Reply to
bigjim

Hi,

My understanding from several recent BMW owners is that by 75k-80k miles, it's about time to be looking for a new one if you don't want the repair bills to start piling up big time. I'm sure BMW's got some good stats on how long most people keep the cars and base their recommendations accordingly. If I only planned on keeping a car 75k miles, I'd probably just quit doing oil changes the day after the warranty expired, but since I, too, like to see at least 200k or more, I don't find changes at 3-5k to be an extravagance, and IME regular dino oil will get you there no problem.

Rick C

Reply to
Rick Courtright

don't find changes at 3-5k to be an extravagance, and IME regular dino oil will get you there no problem.

Reply to
bigjim

shows how little you know about modern synthetics

i know that my engine is better protected with 25,000k on the synthetic in it than your engine with 5000 miles on oil in it which has long since lost it's viscosity and is just take up space.

Reply to
330xi

that's the most idiot statement i've heard this week, obviously you've done a whole wack of market research on how long the average BMW and Subaru engines last before requiring a rebuild.

It's only natural in your mind to think of how you can rip someone off or take advantage. Free maintenance is an excellent advantage for the comsumer as well as having synthetic oil and more advanced engine management to stretch out service intervals so you don't have to be sitting at the dealers every 3 months.

It is always to the dealers advantage to get you in so they can sell you more. In your thinking then it's the Subaru dealer who is taking advantage because it's obvious the BMW dealer is loosing potential extra sales.

Dealers have to make money on Service, Sales do not keep a dealership open.

Reply to
330xi

i know that my engine is better protected with 25,000k on the synthetic in it than your engine with 5000 miles on oil in it which has long since lost it's viscosity and is just take up space.

Reply to
bigjim

There's quite a bit of that here. Mostly on topic, but an awful lot of totally off base info.

Reply to
CompUser

Ah, you fell for it. The troll that is. bigjim, jabario or whatever he calls himself at the time. almost always from butpacker.com... sorry backpacker.com. I don't think this guy even owns a Subaru or if he does it's probably a 91 loyale.

Reply to
Grolsch

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