Subaru's stubborn low grades in the U.S.

The other day I stumbled into this article in Automotive News that is a cause for concern for me before I buy my Subie.
https://www.autonews.com/sales/subarus-stubborn-streak-low-us-grades
What do you think about it?
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Cameo wrote:

And he's back with another JD Power survey stupidity about number of defects per 100 cars with no weighting for severity of the problems.
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On 8/20/2019 1:09 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

Not sure I trust JD Power surveys as they have sponsors, probably competitors in the industry. Consumer Reports who only makes money from their subscribers gives Subaru top marks.
A Subaru salesman told me that they were the most profitable automobile company. Maybe in part due to saving in advertising and promotion. We have three dealers in my area and none of them advertise but sales are brisk.
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On 8/19/2019 10:09 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Don't blame the messenger. According to the article, even the Subaru CEO is concerned.
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If a manufacturer has one car in a thousand with a problem, that's not meaningless. No CEO is going to say "I'm not concerned".
On 2019-08-21 05:39:09 +0000, Cameo said:

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wrote:

Of course he's concerned about a bad rating, whether the rating is valid or not.
--
John Varela

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Stop citing the same messenger who only has the same message to deliver, and delivering it more than once doesn't change the count of the message.
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On 8/27/2019 1:12 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

You've always been this rude?
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You've always been this subversive trying to up a count of citations but actually citing the same reference? I be you double-spaced your school essays, too, to get to the required page count faster with less content.
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On 8/29/2019 12:10 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

I don't see anyone else bitching about my posts but you. That should tell you something.
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wrote:

I count three or four who disagree with you and none who agree.
--
John Varela

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On 8/29/2019 6:16 PM, John Varela wrote:

Really? They sure kept quiet then. Besides, where was I citing the same citations repeatedly?
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wrote:

They are in this thread. All you have to do is look.

I didn't say you did.
--
John Varela

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On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 5:47:50 PM UTC-7, John Varela wrote:

There are people on both sides.
Btw., in law the burded of proof lies on the accuser.
I personally don't trust any of the surveys. They are NOT really independent work, there always seems to be some interest behind them. If it were a governmental agency conducting them I'd be somewhat more likely to rely on findings.
Basia
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On 8/30/19 9:50 PM, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Right, the government never has an agenda ;-)
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On 8/30/2019 5:47 PM, John Varela wrote:

No, you did not. I just wanted to answer also the poster who did. BTW, I think a lot of this hostility toward me for bringing up such articles is probably cognitive dissonance, when in fact I bring it up mainly to get a reassurance for myself that my intention to buy a Crosstrek is validated by you guys, the long term owners. So, by debunking such articles is actually reassuring me and thatnks for that.
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On 9/1/2019 2:52 PM, Cameo wrote:

I bought a new Crosstrek in January and have been very pleased with it. I got the base model with optional EyeSight.
In part of the thread I mentioned the high marks given it by Consumer Reports. They also said that the Crosstrek hybrid was not worth the extra cost to just get an extra 4 mpg. I have been averaging over 30 mpg with just local driving.
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On 9/1/2019 1:11 PM, Frank wrote:

Thanks. That sounds real good and encouraging.
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In this thread: You cite AutoNews who cites JD Power. Autonews cites comments from Tom Doll who reacted to the IQS study (by JD Power). Autonews didn't do the research. They just cited JD Powers.
In your other thread: You cite ... wait for it ... JD Power.
Lots of authors will cite JD Powers as their source. Same info, same source. No surprise there that the FUD keeps flowing. Multiple articles citing the same source still counts as just one source.
You had plenty of prior respondents that specified why the IQS study was flawed by just using a count without any weighting by severity and nothing about how IQS relates to reliability as the vehicle ages. Air bags deploying is just *1* problem but is a hell of lot more severe than just the *1* problem with a low-fuel indicator being off about 5-20 miles on its estimate.
The IQS rating isn't worthless but it is highly skewed without regard to severity or cost to repair/replace. Citing multiple article that cite the same source (JD Power's IQS) isn't going to make more accurate or relevant that JD Power study.
Am I a Subaru fanboy? Not so much over the last decade. In fact, I was planning on getting another car and was looking at Toyota instead of getting another Subie. I wouldn't bother ranking either better than the other because the prep boys at the dealership happened to forget to put in the carpet mats, or they slapped on their dealer sticker on my car when I told them not to do so and that I would charge a monthly advertising fee (and when discovered on delivery, and reminded what I would charge them, then they removed their label). I don't rank car reliability by piddly and trivial stuff. I do consider the cost of having to replace leaking head gaskets (that Subaru lied about and then tried to proffer their own stop-leak mix as a solution) and the danger and nuisance of having to replace accidentally exploding Takada air bags (which was a recall, so no cost but still a nuisance to get repaired).
You might want to review the recalls on the vehicles in which you are interested to get an idea of the history of ills with those vehicles. Just remember that you're deliberately at all the bad stuff that happens. Another factor you might want to research is the average cost per year (and as the car ages) for maintaining the vehicle, and that includes fuel, oil changes, cost for part, insurance (that varies by the brand and model and other factors), initial price, loan interest, sales tax, tabs, depreciation (which varies by brand and model), and ALL expenses incurred in ownership. Last time I got motivated in looking at cars that I could afford with a low cost of ownership, Toyota won over Subaru.
https://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2018/cost-to-own/#style@1720559 https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2018/cost-to-own/#style@1720480
with Subaru being $3544 versus the Toyota, but that was between the Outback SUV (wagon) versus the Camry SE sedan. If I compare against the Toyota RAV4:
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/rav4/2018/cost-to-own/#style@1728282
then Subaru wins (but by a smaller $176 margin). Then, if I compare just within Subaru between the Outback and Forester:
https://www.edmunds.com/subaru/forester/2018/cost-to-own/#style@1716084
then the Forester is more expensive (by $1060).
Often the charts showing total cost of ownership only span 5 years. I've kept my Subies for 20 years, the longest being 24 years. Eventually parts get hardware to find (manufacturers only have to produce them for 20 years) and more expensive, so, at some point, cost of ownership curves upware (but buying a new car is even more expensive). The charts show depreciation (with highest loss to least being Outback, Forester, Camry, and RAV4) which influences resale value, but you'd have to also figure in the initial price (from higher to lower being Outback, RAV4, Forester, Camry).
There are other online resources regarding cost of ownership, like:
https://www.autobytel.com/sport-utility-vehicles/car-buying-guides/10-of-the-cheapest-suvs-to-own-131743/ (ordered from highest to lowest but only for 10 models)
If you do your research, you can aggregate a compendium of reports regarding pricing, cost of ownership, reliability with age, and so on. So far, you're just citing one source (JD Power) with a problem count but no weighting regarding severety or cost to repair or replace. Citing more articles pointing at the same JD Power IQS study doesn't add any weight to that one annual study.
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On 2019-09-03 22:46:41 +0000, VanguardLH said:

That's very smart.
I'm not a medical researcher but I believe some of the most relevent medical reports are systematic reviews with meta-analyses. That is, a number of independent studies are aggregated and then summarized to produce results.
Take JD Power, add in Consumer Reports, Jalopnik, Car and Driver, Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, this forum, etc., and see what they all say. Don't go by one report alone; a new car is too large an investment to make without thoughtful and careful research.
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