when they had the great 2.2 engine?...will they ever own up to the failure of the 96-99 2.5l DOHC? let alone the later 2.5 SOHC with their head gasket failures? Will they ever own up to the design flaw in the engine which is not a gasket problem but a basic design problem allowing hotspots from air bubbles in the coolant..
it would have been a cheap fix to drill and tap the coolant crossover pipe to allow the air to escape....but subaru denial is the cheaper fix...
if you do change your coolant...take care to remove the air, burp the system and save your heads...and do a google search for "subaru head gasket failures"
HG (or any other failure you can name) are not unique to Subaru. Nor is a Subaru immune from just about any type failure that could affect another make.
Also, the HG failures are at the bottom of the cylinder. Not at the top where you'd expect a bubble to be. Though it is tricky to burp Soob engines, there are Toyota engines that require filling through a heater hose to remove the air pockets.
Because X may not be the only idiot in Texas, does that excuse his stupidity? This seems to be the logic of your argument, Carl.
With this issue there is reason for distrust of Subaru to develop, and I think some degree of distrust is already out there. The problem seems to be even more serious as the Subaru 2.5L engine is the main powerplant for the make. I know I would be very hesitant to buy another Subie, today, no matter what engine.
Will subaru ever get back the trust of the early 90's?
I doubt it, and if they do its going to be a lenghty process because the competition is fierce, and getting fiercer. The new product Tribeca will hepl them but they need to shore up their main product before branching out. They want get far with big holes in their defences, so to speak.
like most texans, you don't know squat...the SOHC has an exterior leak from the bottom, the DOHC...and a cheap additive fix which lasts 'til the 100,000 warranty ois over.. ...96-99 has an internal leak....resulting in overheating, then total failure...however you want to cut it, that engine, although a very good engine has a serious flaw which subaru won't own up to....an it takes more then just filling the top radiator hose....to get the air out takes numerous attempts or a swirl tank which is what pilots use when using that engine in a plane....a yank from mn
I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I think your criticism is worth about the 2 cents you ascribed to it. HG failures seem to be a pretty common item today, and make seems to have little to do with it. Toyota, Honda, Ford and GM products have all caused grief to people I've known (I'm told by radiator guys recent Toyotas and Fords both come from the factory with a "sealer" like Subie's recent "conditioner" to help forestall HG problems, but it comes with its own side effects: failure to remove it with a coolant change in the first year or so has been known to cause radiator clogging in Toyotas, failure to replace it at coolant changes has led to HG problems in Fords. Nobody's perfect.) A friend who owns an automotive machine shop says most makes today suffer--he claims it's because of emissions requirements: engineers have to run things "too hot" to get a clean enough burn, which leads to having to "hollow out" the heads to carry more coolant, but then the lack of metal causes warpage and leaks. The only recent HG failure I've had personally was on a Toyota 22-R engine, arguably one of their most bulletproof 4 cyls. When it started overheating (at only 69k miles!), my friend drew me a rough picture on a scrap of paper where to look for a blown gasket. When I pulled the head, the site of the failure couldn't have been closer to where he showed me if he'd have drawn a proper blueprint! Currently, I have a V-6 Camry, and stories of blown HGs on them don't lack, either, though (knocking on wood) mine's been ok. Yet we don't hear much criticism of Toyota's reliability, do we?
Then we get to "burping" the engines... if you think a Subie's fun, you should have tried to get the air out of that 22-R Toyota! It would take AT LEAST a week of adding coolant to the overflow tank every day despite using all the "tricks" to fill the system properly at each change. And the V-6 Toyota? The coolant was always changed by the dealer before I got the car. I changed it last time, and carefully measured what I took out, since Toyota's book capacity specs have seldom matched my real life experience. When I put that amount back in, it wasn't near full! I put over a quart MORE in the engine than what I took out right then, and then a half pint or more in the next few days. Tell me there weren't some hot spots in THAT system? And Toyota was even thoughtful enough to put a second radiator cap in a crossover area on the engine. I won't even waste time recounting tales from friends and family that are similar. In contrast, my Subie's pretty straightforward with minimal "topping off" required in the first few days after a coolant change.
So criticize Subie if you wish, but I've got enough of a Missouri heritage you're gonna have to "show me" why Subie's any worse off than the others before I'll take much stock in the criticism!
Could you describe how to properly burp this engine? Ours is currently being rebuilt with the upgraded HG, is it possible to fit a bleeder pipe to help with burping? Where does it need to be fitted?
well Rick...that link i left you has almost 200 unsatisfied subaru head gasket customers ...all with the identical problem...that should say something....
here also is a link from an aircraft mechanic ..
.scroll down to air in coolant and he describes the problem and fix
formatting link
cliff, i remember seeing a site where a guy took about three days to fill his system.....
rick, if you think my criticism is worth about two cents, then show me a site for toyota ford or yugo for that matter, that has so many dissatisfied customers screaming about one problem ..head gasket failure...
According to this guy you cite, Subaru has made changes in response to the problem:
"So trapped air causes head warp, which causes air to enter the cooling system. It was pretty amusing that at the same time I discovered this entrained air sensitivity in the 2.5 engine, so too did the auto dealers. Head warp caused by customers changing their coolant is now the number one warranty item with this engine. All caused by an engine block that was not plumbed to dynamically remove air from the high point. Subaru has since changed their cooling system design. "
According to this guy you cite, Subaru has made changes in response to the problem:
it would be nice for subaru to own up to it and tell the rest of us......my forester cost 25 grand.....like i said... a recall for a drill and tap and swirl tank would have been an hour fix.it has cost a lot of these people $1500-2000 and its still not fixed...
I own a Sube and I am shopping for another. They have my trust - at present. So, once, did Totota, and datsun(my daughter's presently has a $4 part that needs 16-19 hours to replace - oil seal between timing chain housing and block - she is the Exxon Valdez of Tarrant County). And Honda? Actually, even though I had a Honda eat cyl. number 2 when the rocker carrier rotated and oil starved the followers, I bought a second one. It gave me good service. Ya see, this Texan understands anecdotal stories and anomalies. Doesn't mean BJ shouldn't be upset. I would be too. After all, even if something has a 1% chance of happening, when it happens to YOU, you're experiencing it 100% of the time.
I feel your pain. I guess, I really just don't care. A line from a song popular in TEXAS goes; 'It's your misfortune and none of my own'.
i feel your pain i guess, i just don't care?....is that texas talk for i don't have anything to add and i could care less about all the smucks who have this problem but since i have nothing else to do i might write sumptin!
It tells me someone collected some names... approx 1/10 of 1% of one year's sales figures, and that's IF they all had the same year car! If a manufacturer of any product has 99.9% of his production free of a particular problem or defect, I can see how he might not put all his efforts into fixing what's really a non-existent problem from HIS standpoint. Now, as someone else said, if YOUR vehicle is one of the defective ones, it's a whole different story. To YOU! But to the mfr it's a numbers game and somebody's gonna lose. "Sorry it was you," they say. And they move on... be glad you weren't burned up in a Pinto!
Thanks for trying with that link, but if one reads the fellow's blog, his story's so full of holes I'd hardly consider him credible. $40 for a radiator hose clamp? They (Subaru) put the cooling system conditioner in the oil? Come on, now, you've gotta do better than that!
Yup, we've all heard a lot of that recently. I guess we should nominate you Carl for President of alt.autos.subaru :)))
Now back to the issue, I think there is a lot of fluctuaction and "regression to the mean" in quality of car manufacture. By this I mean brands that have built a reputation can afford some slack later on, and manufacturers who got sloppy if they want to stay in business they must improve their products.
So perhaps the best bet is to buy a brand that has had some problems in recent past and hopefully is in the improvement cycle, and avoid those basking in recent glory cause they may be in the desceding phase of the cycle.
Recently this would be avoid Subaru, buy say Hyundai. Tomorrow, or even today it may be the opposite. Who knows how long a described cycle lasts.
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