alignment required when replacing a bad strut?

As the struts have no camber adjustments, its almost a mute point. That being said, I replaced the struts on a Taurus that had set adjustments and after I checked the alignment- and the camber was out. go figure- By the rules it should have been good. When was the last time the alignment was checked? If it has been a while then it wouldn't be a bad Idea to be sure the work was done correctly and everything is copasetic

You do this for a living? There is enough slop at the strut crossbolts on the OP's Accord, or most Macpherson strut style models, to achieve a one degree range of camber movement. Further that, smaller diameter replacement bolts are available if you need more adjustment range, though that would indicate that something is bent -- an adjustment would just be a coverup. Slap a pair of struts on a previously aligned Accord, then see how far out your camber and toe are. Maybe you would be surprised.

There are rules regarding Taurus strut eccentrics? Who is the governing body? Have they published a charter for all to read?

Toyota MDT in MO

The earlier gen taurus (in the front) have a plate on top of the strut tower that has to be drilled out of its spot welds to do more strut adjustment.

I believe too in the rear there is a after market kit you can install to increase the adjustment.

Bob

Bob

Yes and yes. The strut plate adjustment allows for a little camber as well as caster adjustment, but since it is at the top of the suspension assembly there isn't much movement to be had in regard to wheel angle.

Toyota MDT in MO

Toyota MDT in MO

That is why I said "almost" I would always check the alignment on any I do and on most of the Honda's I've done the specs were correct regardless. I understand about bolt slop and use it whenever possible.

Good point- that is a cleaver trick to insure your close to specs. Don't have to do much random strut changes anymore- the shop is a Subaru so that is a camber adjustment.

I would be interested to know how many mechanics (what %) own a magnetic camber gauge. They are pretty simple in construction, but still very expensive. I can't rationalize the purchase given our policy to align cars after suspension work whether warranty/customer pay and whether or not the replaced part has any affect on alignment. We are doing a recall now on 96- trucks that requires ball joint replacement. The tolerences are so tight and the part(s) are aligned with dowels so that there is no way the alignment would change significantly, yet we do an alignment afterwards. I have no idea what is wrong with the original ball joints which makes it seem like the customer is really getting a free alignment and nothing more. C'est la vie, I suppose....

Toyota MDT in MO

In over 25 years in the trade, I've never worked with any tech or met any tech casually that owned one of these items. I have only worked in GM/Chrysler dealerships, it's possible that some guys in the independent shops might have them.

Exactly. Alignments are always done, not because it's always necessary, but because "it's always necessary" to cover your ass in this business. The one alignment that you don't do, will be the customer who will be in bitching about "why didn't you do an alignment"?.

Ian

A guy in our shop (he's one of the few good techs) has one. I don't know of any others. Chrysler too? Didn't know that...

No doubt! Slightly OT rant to follow...

I just about swelled a bloodvessel one day when my (useless) service writer put me on the phone with a customer that was bitching about her Camry "pulling" ever since a warranty! job about 6! months ago. Long story: I find out this warranty job was simply a steering shaft coupler replacement. I'm guessing it was replaced by one of our gravyhound butchers that don't give a shit about the customer, and left the steering wheel off center. I already had looked at the car the week before and found one tire on the pull side to be way low on pressure. I fixed that problem and straightened the steering wheel at the tie rods (for the butcher), test drove before/after and she got it back for free (again). It was clearly fixed properly.

So fast forward to present, she's complaining that it is still pulling. I am explaining over and over on the phone that I have test drove it

4! times and it hasn't pulled since I made the repair last week. I was explaining that she *didn't* need to spend money for an alignment; the only thing I could do would be to swap camber to the other side to try to compensate for an imaginary pull. It was obvious that she just wanted to bitch. I could just imagine the bitching if I gave it back to her after an alignment check: no problem found. So I ask her in what condition or roads does it "pull" now? She says "from between the road X exit to the road Y exit on highway Z it pulls left one lane". I estimate that at about 2! miles. The bitch. So I ask her if she realizes that that is two miles; you can't expect to stay in one lane especially when the drainage slant is to the left! Of course not only 1)doesn't she realize but 2) that's not the point. Shortly afterward she packed up her 'trying to get a free alignment bullshit' and hung up. Bitch. You probably agree that you would bend over backwards for just about any customer, but there comes a point where it is counter productive. When I go into business I will happily let those types pound sand.

Toyota MDT in MO

Ian, we have had the camber gage on hand as a shop tool, not the tech's, lots of people in the area I am in don't want to spend the money for an alignment, so this is what they get and noted on the invoice. Plus it gets very close to right if you are careful.

Oh, I have no doubt that it's probably quite accurate. We just wouldn't use something like that in our shop. We have to make the money back on the two 50K dollar machines we have in our shop!

Ian

I had bought one, and was just waiting for an ideal opportunity to put new struts on my wife's car. Pulled that sucker out of the box, only to find it was broken. (Wasnt broken when I bought it. I can blame it on the yardboy)

I stuck one of those cheapo adhesive bubble levels onto the magnetic gauge body, and did it anyway, knowing that I would take it to the alignment shop regardless.

The sides were a degree or less off from ideal. Dont know what it was before I changed the struts. I think the gauge, had it survived, would have been a lot easier to use, but it got me close enough that I could have driven a few days without worrying too much.

"Comboverfish" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I didn't think the '97 Accord had Macpherson struts which performed part of the suspension's geometric positioning.

As far as I know, the front suspension of the Accord of that generation consists of the lower control arm, radius rod and upper wishbone. The damper/spring assembly (what the OP is wrongly calling a "strut") bolts to the lower control arm through a rubber bushing.

Or am I musunderstanding something here? You guys know better than I do.

Hi Tegger,

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm a dumb@ss! I was thinking of the system in my head but not the multilink wishbone Honda as I should have. Having worked at a Honda dealer that qualifies as a brain fart. You are correct, there is zero useful adjustment at any of the attatching bolts on the wishbone design. They do have a shim between the radius arm and front beam bushing that can be removed for more caster, or added to to reduce caster. Basically, if camber is off on one of these you need to look for bent parts. Now, any other mac strut design.....

Toyota MDT in MO (still learning to think before posting!)

"Comboverfish" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I'm the last one to point out mistakes, actually. You've doubtless forgotten more than my total sum of knowledge. I'm just a driveway grease monkey.

That's interesting. I just did all the front bushings on my '91 Integra (which has the same front suspension design as the '97 Accord). There were no shims at all at the crossmember end of the radius rod. Just the thick steel end plates and the rubber bushings. I even swabbed out the sockets in the crossmember before reinstalling, so I know nothing was stuck in there. Guess the car didn't need any shims?

"TeGGeR®" wrote in news:Xns987BE64768917tegger@207.14.116.130:

And this monkey just had his own brain fart! The OP was talking about the REAR suspension, something I only noticed just now!

Result should be the same though, I'd guess. The rear also has a multilink setup with the damper assembly bolting to the control arm with a rubber bushing.

Unfortunately I've forgotten most of what I knew as well : ) For a DIYer/enthusiast, you really seem to know your stuff and show concern for proper repairs. Give yourself due credit!

They're the same in terms of no camber adjustability, plus no caster due to it being a fixed (nonsteering) wheel.

RE: no caster shims in your Acura -- Not all Hond-curas came with them. You can add a shim to reduce caster or you can remove one if equipped to increase caster. I've found that on old Toyota Camrys with this same design that they rarely had shims from the factory, yet they usually could benefit from more front caster on high mileage units with minor spring sag. It's a crap design. The radius arm (or sway bar on Toyotas) should be threaded with two nuts for adjustability. Some older models were, but I forget which years. The only problem is with the threads corroding, but that's a problem with any threaded rod (tie rods, etc.)

Toyota MDT in MO