Camry Reliability From Consumers Union: Why Down So Much; True ?

Hello:

Trying to decide on a new Accord or Camry.

Saw in the 2003 Car Buying Guide from Consumers Union that the Accord gets the highest marks for reliability, while the Camry has rreally dropped; down to just average, or so.

Haven't seen the Guide for 2004 cars, but my guess is it's the same, as the cars presumably really haven't changed from 03 to 04.

Is it true that Camry has slipped so much in reliability (and quality) ?

Why ? Specifically where ?

What might any other guides show ?

The Toyota salesman wasn't particularly anxious to discuss it.

Thanks, Bob

Reply to
Robert11
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Isn't this true for most any product? After a while, they get lax, cheapen it, and soon evolution takes its course. Check out the town hall:

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B~

Reply to
B. Peg

I would not put a lot of faith in the CR reliability ratings. They are solely based on the responses from CR readers that chose to return the surveys. I think they reflect the advertising of the various brands at least as much as they reflect owner's experiences. The CR forms don't adequately distinguish between minor, no or low cost problems, and major failures. A vehicle that is recalled for a relatively minor problem sill generates a negative rating, even if the recall is only for something to be inspected. I am not a fan of Toyota, but I doubt that Camry's are much different now than they have always been. It is more likely that the Toyota publicity machine is not doing as good a job as it used to in deluding Toyota owners into thinking that Toyotas are something special. Personally, I suggest you try both the Accord and the Camry and base your decision on how they fit in with your desires. Either will be relatively reliable. And you can get a bad one of either brand. Personally, of the two, I'd go with the Accord, but the difference is not very great and you may find the Camry's conservative appearance and competent, if unexciting performance, just what the doctor ordered for you. Personally I think you are paying thousands extra compared to cars from US manufacturers.

Ed

Robert11 wrote:

Reply to
C. E. White

Reply to
stuart8181

Exactly. Totally unscientific and statistically invalid. It's as much a popularity contest with owners as it is a service survey.

Hey, you've been reading my posts. I think I'm gonna have to sue you for copyright infringement!

I agree with your assessment of the Camry and Accord, but I would not suggest an American car. Japanese reliability is still tops.

C/R is somewhat useless as an indicator of specific problems because of the problem with very general categories. ABout all you can conclude about the reports in C/R is that cars with _lots_ of black circles are less reliable that cars with lots of red circles. You should not compare circle to circle to judge. If you see a black circle, check into that vehicle to see if they had some particular fault in that area in that year and find out if it's minor or major.

I don't think you can go wrong reliability wise with either car.

Reply to
Jimmy

And what exactly is the issue with paint/rust/trim ? That's the problem I have with C/R reports - very generic categories. Some cars have underbody rust coming off the boat. Others have orange peel in the paint. C/R doesn't always (often) tell you which one.

Keep in mind that the simple presence of TSB's does not mean anything bad. Some manufacturers issue them for anything they figure out that a service or body department might care about. You have to read the actual TSB to know how serious it is. Actual recalls are separate. I haven't found the NHTSB information to be particularly complete or useful for TSB's.

Alldatadiy.com will give you the complete TSB's along with all of the service info for your car. About $30/year last I checked. Well worth it to check it out if you plan to buy a particular (used) car to read the TSB's and figure out what you might want to check or fix. If you find something frightening then it was $30 well spent before you bought. There won't be much on 2004 models.

(That class being "boring and sedate" ;-)

And Honda now considers TSB's "proprietary" and does not release them to the public. Nice company.

Reply to
Jimmy

Why do you expect Buicks to be better than other similar sized GM cars? The major mechanical parts are the same and in most cases they are built on the same production line by the same workers as other GM models. The fact that Buicks show up as especially reliable in the CU rating compared to other GM cars is a good indication that the rating are bogus and have more to do with perception than reality.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Fortunately they still have to report them to NHTSA. If you want the actual full text of a TSB, NHTSA can provide it - for a fee.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

| > Buick was rated best reliability for 2004 and from experience it sure is. | | Why do you expect Buicks to be better than other similar sized GM cars? | The major mechanical parts are the same and in most cases they are built | on the same production line by the same workers as other GM models. The | fact that Buicks show up as especially reliable in the CU rating | compared to other GM cars is a good indication that the rating are bogus | and have more to do with perception than reality. | | Ed

I would suggest reading through alt.autos.gm news group before considering a Buick alternative. The very pervasive problems with leaking gaskets on GM's newer engines is very worrisome to long term reliability, I would think.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

I don't think that you can get the full repair details from the NHTSB unless it's a safety issue. I think all you get is the statement of problem (even if you pay). I confess that I haven't actually tried to get TSB's on Honda to see what they send.

Most manufacturers release them to the public via service like Alldata and you can get what the dealers get. Some public minded dealers even post them on web sites.

Reply to
Jimmy

NHTSA will "sell" you the full text of TSBs. It is pricey thought. From the NHTSA site:

"TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS The Division has a microfiche collection of the technical service bulletins issued by manufacturers to their dealerships from 1968 to

1985. Bulletins from 1986 through 1993 can be accessed on optical disc and later bulletins can be requested through TIS Staff or may be viewed on the Alldata System, after calling up the appropriate vehicle make, model and model year. Many of these service bulletins contain the instructions which motor vehicle manufacturers provide for their dealer repair services."

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

That's because old people own them and they never put significant mileage on them for them to break.

B~

Reply to
B. Peg

I thought Camrys and Buicks appealed to exactly the same groups....People with weak minds who believe boring ads.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Those would be SUV buyers.

Reply to
Manny

The weak mind peoples are the one paying 20 grand for a f...g Civic modified or not . 150 hp at 7000 rpm, skateboard type suspension,noisy like Ozzy, and using all that shit to go to the corner store,or to drive at 70 mph being afraid of the cops...

Reply to
Rick

Just more nonsense from the Consumer Union Random Rating Generator.

Reply to
Steve

No, that would just be import buyers.

Reply to
Steve

Are you sure that they have full text/graphics on Honda/Acura for non-safety issues ?

Reply to
Jimmy

Not that I can tell. Fit and finish are fabulous on the Toyota. I think there was a campaign (special warranty) on the V6 head gaskets where they were fixing them free if one was leaking, but other than that. I can't think of anything notable.

I like both cars. I think both are well built. The Honda is sportier.

He probably has no idea. I've had salesmen try to tell me that CVT (continously variable transmission) had something to do with the engine valves. (I kid you not.)

__________________ Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'. N38.6 W121.4

Reply to
Barry S.

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