2006 Toyota Avalon

Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for a second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car, you at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that kind of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring over priced Toyota vs BMW.

Ed

I would certainly prefer a BMW over a Toyota but to be fair, the Avalon is not a "stretched Camry." jor

It's not a stretched Camry anymore. It shares the Lexus platform now.

I'm glad you have the BMW as an alternative. It's nice we all can be happy.

We might be happier, though, if Toyota dealers weren't posting ads in the newsgroup. Personally, I'd regard that indiscretion as a deal-breaker.

Brent

What is a Lexus but a guzzied up Toyota? And what makes an Avalon more than a stretched Camry? They share the same basic layout and suspension type (if not actual parts), transmission, and engine family (the Avalon just gets the

3.5L version). In looking at the specs, the biggest different is the outrageous price for the Avalon. In the end, it is still just another adequately powered front wheel drive econo-box trying to be something it isn't. It is a well assembled third rate design. If you can live with that sort of mediocrity, a Buick LeSabre costs a lot less. A Ford 500 is a lot less, and has more room. Heck, a Grand Marquis is less and has more room. I can't see paying a premium price an Avalon. But that is just me. I suppose they are lining up at the Toyota store even as I speak.

Ed

"C.E. White" is a troll who has been known to throw around misinformation. Pay no attention to him.

With Free shipping to Massachusetts?

I just have an opinion. Which part of my post is not ture? Some of it is clearly opinion, but the facts are pretty clear - if you buy an Avalon you are buying little more than an enlarged Camry and paying thousands more. There is nothing technologically significant in an Avalon. I doubt that anyone thinks an Avalon could keep up with a 3 Series BMW, even though it costs more. The extra interior room over a Camry comes at a high price. If you want a rooier car than a Camry a LaSabre, Five Hundred or Grand Marquis all provide increased room for a much lower price than the Avalon.If you want better performacne than a Camry, a Maxima or BMW 3 series are better choices. I admit the new Avalon is a big improvment over the previous generation (which was literally a stetched Camry), but it still a car without a clear market. Too overpriced to be a family car, too slow to be a performance car, and too dull to attract the the people looking to impress the masses. I can only assume it appeals the the Toyota drones who line up to buy any thing Toyota sells becasue it a Toyota. In the end it is an incredibly dull mass market car at a premium price.

Toyota Ford Buick Spec Avalon Five Hundred LeSabre Exterior length 197.2" 200.7" 200.0" Exterior body width 72.8" 74.5" 73.5" Exterior height 58.5" 60.1" 57.0" Wheelbase 111.0" 112.9" 112.2" Front legroom 41.3" 41.3" 42.4" Rear legroom 40.9" 41.3" 39.9" Front headroom 38.8" 39.4" 38.8" Rear headroom 37.5" 38.7" 37.8" Front hiproom 55.8" 53.7" 56.1" Rear hiproom 56.2" 53.7" 56.6" Front shoulder room 59.4" 57.8" 59.1" Rear shoulder room 58.2" 57.6" 58.7" Passenger volume 106.9 cu.ft. 107.1 cu.ft. 107.6 cu.ft. MSRP $33,815 $22,165 $26,725 0-60 6.7 sec 8.7 sec 8.8 sec EPA Mileage 22/31 21/29 19/30

So what do you get for your $11,600+ or $7,000+ when you buy an Avalon besides a little more horsepower?

Ed

Ed White whined:

Calling Toyota buyers "idiots" or "drones" makes you look stupid. I also recall you recently unleashing a ton of misinformation when comparing a Camry to an Impala--and getting busted for it.

Since you didn't quote, what part are you referring to?

Never mind, I found it.

The part where you said the Avalon is a stretched Camry is wrong, for one.

Not when you are comparing cars in different classes, which is what you have done here. And your endless "idiot" and "drone" slams don't figure into the facts either.

Again, the current Avalon is based on a Lexus platform, not the Camry.

What is your definition of "technologically significant"? Electronic keyless ignition and automatic sensing wipers (to name two) are not technologically significant?

IMO, being the most technologically significant car in its class does NOT automatically make it the best in its class.

I doubt that anyone who buys an Avalon even cares. It doesn't even compete with the 3-series. Avalon is a semi-large luxury car; 3-series is a smaller sporty car.

If kept way beyond the warranty period, the Avalon will likely cost less to maintain over the long term than any of those.

Why are you using Camry in your comparison now? Camry doesn't compete with Maxima or 3-Series. And what is your definition of "better"? Certainly not reliable, that's for sure.

Avalon is neither a family car nor a high performance car (well, it has the acceleration, but not the handling). It is a soft riding luxury car without the luxury nameplate, much like a Buick. So it is safe to say that it competes with the LeSabre. Actually, the LeSabre and Park Avenue are being replaced by the Lucerne this year.

Again, knock it off with the "drones". I'm sure that most people who buy a Toyota are not looking for excitement; they buy it because of its long proven reputation for reliability (yes, it's not a myth, but a fact).

Your opinion.

The differences in these dimensions between Avalon and the others are insignificant.

Advantage: Avalon!

And there's another small advantage of Avalon... slightly better gas mileage, something Toyota usually excels at.

What do you get? You get slightly lower refueling costs, a high probability of reliability, and much lower maintenance costs if kept beyond the warranty period.

If you don't like Toyota, fine. Just do yourself and the rest of this newsgroup a favour... stop squawking about it with lies and insults toward those who like it, and get the hell out of here.

I used to. They don't have anything exciting anymore... :(...

Oh, and by the way, Ed... here's another lie:

From MSN Autos (autos.msn.com):

Avalon MSRP: $26,350 - $33,540 LeSabre MSRP: $26,725 - $32,385 Grand Marquis MSRP: $24,585 - $30,940

So Avalon's closest competitor, LeSabre, costs about the same. Grand Marquis is slightly less expensive to buy, but more expensive to refuel.

And here is yet another lie:

Avalon costs more than a 3-Series? LOL!!!

Again, from MSN Autos:

Avalon MSRP: $26,350 - $33,540

3-Series MSRP: $30,900 - $44,900

I rest my case. Once again, Ed, you have been proven to be a liar... and a troll.

Better fuel mileage, much better performance (look at those ridiculous

0-60 times for the Ford and Buick), better fit and finish, and better reliability.

Why did you not list the engine specs for the above cars? And why not a column for the BMW you like.

Also, I am not sure you are comparing comparable trim levels in those MSRP numbers. The base MSRP for an Avalon is $26,625, $100 **cheaper** than the LaSabre you list above.

Merritt

Merritt

Well, as "Ed" claimed another post, he owned one Toyota that turned out to be a rare lemon, and has had a hatred for Toyota ever since. Of course, it doesn't make sense to judge them based on having owned only one Toyota (and it wasn't one of their more reliable cars anyway). He's making up lies and twisting other facts to make Toyota look bad, just like the troll he's proven himself to be.

I stopped buying Lexus V8s when the price went up over 50K. The luxury cars I buy now have proven to be just as comfortable, powerful and reliable and a hell of a lot less expensive to buy, maintain and replace.

mike hunt

You better go to a dealership and compare prices if that is what you think goes on in the real world. A few months ago my one son bought a brand new, loaded 2005 V8 Grand Marquis GS, leather the works, for under 19K

mike hunt

Mike, my name ain't 'hachiroku' 'cause I love my Chrysler!!!

Historically an Avalon is a stretched Camry platform. For 2006 it is the stretched version of the next generation Camry platform.

It was a stretched Camry for 1995-1999. But what was it for 2000-2004? Certainly not a "stretched Camry." And what makes 2006 different from

2005 (when the new model was released?)

And how can you "stretch" a platform that doesn't exist ("the next generation Camry"). If anything the next generation Camry would have to be a shrunk version of the Avalon (I am not saying it is, as I don't know).

Merritt

I believe there are literally thousands of people who qualify as Toyota drones. I personally know a couple. They don't even consider buying anything else. I also know GM drones, Ford drones, and Honda drones. I have owned more Fords than any other brand, but I've owned enough other brands to escape the drone category (Datsun, Audi, Mazda, Saturn, Toyota, Austin-Healey, Jensen-Healey, Dodge, Plymouth).

As for the idiot term - well I was engaging in hyperbole. Maybe a better term would have deluded car buyer. I really don't understand the mentality of people who just fall for the Toyota hype. If you could buy an Avalon for the price of a LeSabre or a Grand Marquis, then I could understand that they could sell a few. However at $5K to 10K more, it is a ridiculously overpriced vehicle for that particular segment. BTW, I think people who buy some of the rebadged SUVs (Navigator, Escalade, Aviator) are also deluded car buyers.

I once suggested that it made more sense to buy an Impala than a Camry. Is that what you are thinking about? As for getting busted, I don't think so. The most anybody came up with was the JD Powers chant. But since Buick is now routinely finishing in front of Toyota in those popularity contests, I don't think it was much of a retort. How does it feel to drive a car that is rated less reliable than a Buick?

It is stretched Camry in the same sense that a Lincoln Town Car is a stretched Crown Victoria. Same suspension type (if not the exact same pieces as was the case in the previous generation Avalon), same transmission, same engine family (but the 3.5 version), etc. An Avalon is nothing special, just a bigger version of the same old boring Toyota front wheel drive drone mobiles.

I've explained the drone term - you clearly qualify. And I'll quit saying idiot and start using the term deluded car buyer. Exactly which class does an Avalon fit? Seems like it is aimed at the "large medium priced old folks family car" segment. And compared to other cars in this segment (LeSabre, Park Avenue, Bonneville, Grand Marquis, Crown Victoria, Five Hundred, Monterey), it is over priced.

Yeah that's like saying the Grand Marquis is based on the Lincoln Town Car platform instead of the Crown Victoria platform. The Lexus is a Toyota, sold for Toyota buyers who want to feel good about spending even more money for boring second rate front wheel drive designs (but they are assembled well).

Buicks has had automatic wipers for yeas. I don't even understand the point of the keyless start bit. Why would I care? I still have to have a "key" of sorts. Explain to me the advantage of the keyless system over the traditional system? Of course anyone that had an early 60's GM car enjoyed the advantage of truly keyless start systems. If those are the best two things you can come up with, you are truly damning the Avalon with faint praise. The Prius is a Toyota vehicle that actually is technologically advanced. The Honda Pilot with the cylinder deactivation system and active noise canceling is technologically advanced. Heck, I think the ancient 3.8L V-6 in a LeSabre is more technologically interesting than "keyless" ignition. How do they get such good mileage out of an engine that can trace it roots back to the early 60's and is wit out overhead cams, or variable valve timing, or four valves per cylinder. Now that is engineering. Keyless ignition is gimmickry. But now I understand why you are a Toyota drone. You highly value pointless gimmicks.

OK. We agree on that. Being the most overpriced car in the class doesn't make it the best either.

Bingo! Most people who buy cars in that class aren't really interested in all out performance. And that is the only advantage an Avalon can claim over most as the car in the class despite costing $5 to $10K more. You make my point for me. It is wildly overpriced compared to its competitors without having any advantages that are valued by people who buy cars in that class.

Spoken like a true Toyota drone. I already covered this in a prior post. My Mother has owned two Grand Marquis over the last 14 years. Total repairs on the cars was one IAC $120 installed at the dealer).

This is where Toyota drones delude themselves. The difference in reliability between any of these cars is trivial for most buyers. Sure there are bad Nissans, and bad BMWs, but there are bad Toyotas as well (I owned one). This seems to be the argument that Toyota buyers comfort themselves with when they spend thousands more for a car.

I used Camry, because I assume the Avalon is intended as a next step up for Camry buyers. Why would anyone move up from a Camry? Either for a bigger car or a better performing car. There are many bigger cars than a Camry that are a far better buy. If you are moving up to get a better performing car, the 3 Series BMW or the Maxima are better choices. Again, the Avalon seems to be a car with no legitimate market except for Toyota drones.

Again you are making my point for me. Yes, the Avalon is a LeSabre (or Park Avenue, or Lucerne) competitor - but it cost more and give you less.

Well you tell me how I should classify people who buy Toyotas becasue they are Toyotas. JD Power rates Buick reliability as better than Toyota's. So now what is your excuse for buying a Toyota? Personally I think the JD Powers survey (and the CU survey too) are little more than poorly defined popularity contests. However, since popularity is what sells cars, I guess they have some validity.

Absolutely! Never claimed it was backed by science. See the very first line at the top. But your statements are opinion as well.

Ed

MSRP??? Maybe Toyota buyers pay MSRP, but I never have. I'll bet I can go buy a reasonably loaded LeSabre tomorrow for less that $23K. What do you suppose I can buy a fully loaded Avalon for?

The Avalon that the guy that started this tread was peddling cost more than a 3 series.

You have no case. I was thinking 2005 3 Series, your price is for a 2006. Toyota lists MSRPs for their 2006 Avalons as $26625 to $33815. The guy that started this thread was peddling an Avalon with an MSRP of $33,741. So clearly MSN Autos has something wrong, since even Toyota lists a higher maximum MSRP. You can buy a 3 Series for less than that. And what can you actually buy an Avalon for? The Avalon with the lowest MSRP at the Toyota dealer closet to my house is over $30k (Fred Anderson Toyota). The cheapest one in the Southeast Region has an MSRP of $28K (and is close to a "stripper"). The Buick Dealer nearest me (Southern States) will sell me a LeSabre for $23K with no haggling (and it is not the "stripper", it has the most popular options package, whatever that is). Now do you really think I am a liar? Do you think a base Avalon is worth $6K more than a LeSabre with the "most popular options?" I don't.

And if expressing my opinion makes me a troll, then this newsgroup must be the land of the trolls. I reacted to an ad for what I think is a ridiculously overpriced vehicle. I stated my reasons and my preferred alternate vehicles. It is my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I am entitled to express my opinions (as are you).

Ed