Japanese autos tops in reliability survey

The problem with all of this is it lists vehicle by the number of owner complaints as just that.... a list. Naturally on any LIST one will be on the top, one on the bottom and the rest somewhere in-between. The problems are not quantified as to severity. Certainly a bad power train component is worse than a squeak in a door, but the LISTs do not divulge that fact. In reality if the same result were presented as a percentage rather than a list, EVERY manufactures vehicles would show a defect rate of between 1% and

2%. The fact is no mater which vehicle one buys there is a 98% change that it will be a good dependable vehicle. For a buyer to spend thousands more than needed to buy a particular brand over an other, or settle for one that does not meet their needs simply hoping you will not get one of the 2%, is an effort if futility.

To make a purchasing decision based on those that argue my brand X was a better car after ten years than my brand Y is an effort if futility as well. In the first place the average new car buyer in the US will replace that vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 30 K to 45 K on the clock, not ten years. Only a very small percentage of new car buys keep their vehicle more than seven years in any event. In the second place brand Y is not offering for sale the vehicles they sold ten years ago and brand Y is not offering for sale the vehicles they sold twenty years ago. Buying any vehicle based on another persons experience with ONE or even two or three off of that brand, good or bad, in a bit foolish

My advice to those that ask, because of my many years on all sides of the automotive business with nearly all brands, is drive all those models that suit your needs, get a DRIVE HOME price not simply a selling price for each, then buy the one that best suits you budget. Your odds of getting one of the 98% is far more likely than not.

mike hunt

The improvement in reliability of American brands is necessary and hopefully not too late. Quality still needs to improve.

What is with Nissan? For example, the full sized Titan with an abysaml reliability rating and a payload less than that of a compact truck like the Ranger. Not just a few pounds less, hundreds less! What a heap.

John

It lists vehicles by the rates, not number, of owner complaints

A big drawback.

Where do you get the 1-2% rate? Consumer Reports' 1-year defect rates range from about 5% to 30%.

who gives a flying fiddlers fart?? if the u.s. auto makers made a huge "donation" to the magazines charity of choice, they would be listed as the best seller. it is all about who gives the most gifts, not who builds the best vehicle.

Consumer Reports bases there data on volunteerary surveys sent only to their readers. It is much more likely that a disataisfied Customer will return the survey. It is also my opinion that CR readers are likely to slant their answers to match the tone of the magazine (i.e. kiss Toyota's ass).

What I think both you and Mike over-looked is how well the Fusion did in the surveys. For a Ford product to do so well in any rating connected to CR is almost unbelievable. When I read this, I thought it must have been a hoax. The usual CR comments on US vehicles is usually somethig like - " Although the [US vehicle] performed flawlessly and got a perfect score in our survey, we can't recomemnd it because it isn't a Toyota."

I supect Mike is relying on the JD Powers surveys to come up with his 1% or

2% defect rate. For the 2005 Vehicle Dependability Study the industry average was 2.4 problems per vehicle. The "best" brand was Lexus with 1.4 problems per vehicle. Fords had 2.3 problems. per vehicle. Not much of a spread - especially when you consider how over priced a Lexus is.

Ed

Who the F@#$#@ are you?

I was about to pass this up as I have little confidence in the CR owner polling methods. Many JAP and Euro owners use it to justify their buying decisions, and I know that for a fact.. at least from ONE instance and there were other hints of that in the past.

HOWEVER... The important news is Ford's RELATIVE rating, and that is buttressed by the ratings for Nissan... that's how you know it's on the up and up.

Nissan is crap, historically -other than drivetrain- it's ALWAYS been crap, and if the polls show that; it's on the up and up.

And the ONE thing I believe about CR is they CANNOT be bought... they can be fooled but NOT BOUGHT.

If you have any proof of your charges bring 'em here, otherwise STFU

Of course it is RATE mean problems per hundred, not total numbers. The average RATE is around 125 per hundred which is 01.25 percent, even the best RATE is over 1%.

mike hunt

Precisely the point of my post, all thing considered. ;)

mike hunt

complaints as just that.... a list. Naturally on any LIST one will be on the top, one on the bottom and the rest somewhere in-between. The problems are not quantified as to severity. Certainly a bad power train component is worse than a squeak in a door, but the LISTs do not divulge that fact. In reality if the same result were presented as a percentage rather than a list, EVERY manufactures vehicles would show a defect rate of between 1% and

2%. The fact is no mater which vehicle one buys there is a 98% change that it will be a good dependable vehicle. For a buyer to spend thousands more than needed to buy a particular brand over an other, or settle for one that does not meet their needs simply hoping you will not get one of the 2%, is an effort if futility.

To make a purchasing decision based on those that argue my brand X was a better car after ten years than my brand Y is an effort if futility as well. In the first place the average new car buyer in the US will replace that vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 30 K to 45 K on the clock, not ten years. Only a very small percentage of new car buys keep their vehicle more than seven years in any event. In the second place brand Y is not offering for sale the vehicles they sold ten years ago and brand Y is not offering for sale the vehicles they sold twenty years ago. Buying any vehicle based on another persons experience with ONE or even two or three off of that brand, good or bad, in a bit foolish

My advice to those that ask, because of my many years on all sides of the automotive business with nearly all brands, is drive all those models that suit your needs, get a DRIVE HOME price not simply a selling price for each, then buy the one that best suits you budget. Your odds of getting one of the 98% is far more likely than not.

mike hunt

You've got your number wrong.

Per cent (%) means per hundred (cent means hundred; you will see it as a base word in words like centimeter (1/100th of a meter) and centiped (100 legs - though centipeds don't really have 100 legs)) as well as the word "cent" which means 1/100th of a dollar).

So a rate of 125 per 100 would be 125%, not 1.25%. A rate of 125% means that the were 125 problems for each 100 cars, or an average of 1.25 problems per car. I think most reports actually say how many problems per 100 cars, but a rate of 125% doesn't sound so good.

A rate of 1.25% would mean that there were an average 0.0125 problems per car or 1.25 problems for each 100 cars. That would be excellent.

My recollection is that the average number of problems per car is around

2.5, so I believe C. E. White is correct with his figure.

I think one source of confusion may be the difference between reliability rates (which is what the articles call the ratings form Consumers' Union) and initial problems, which is what J.D. Powers and Assoc., measure. I am pretty sure J.D. Power and Assooc.'s Intiial quality survey inlcudes all problems reprot. The one from Consumers' Union seems to include just serious problems with a rate of around 20% (20 per hundred).

So the numbers vary with what is actually being measured.

Jeff

Just announced today FORD has three in the top 10 of reliability and consumer satisfaction Lincoln Zepher and the Fusion/Mondao (spelling)