Caravan COLD Engine Oil Leak?? HELP!!

Hi everyone,

I am hoping that someone can help me out here and try to solve "a big mystery" that none of my mechanics can seem to solve.

I have a 1995 Dodge Caravan with 170,000 thousand miles. Its the 3.0L V6 engine. A little over a month ago, the car developed a MAJOR oil leak, where oil would basically just POUR out of the engine. The car would lose about 1 quart of oil every 5 minutes the engine was running.

My regular mechanic of 10+ years was "positive" that it was the "rear main seal" and he doesn't do major engine work anymore, so he recommended some other guy that I never heard of or went to before.

Anyway, I brought the car there, and the guy looked at it, and he said that the "crank seal" was totally gone, and that the car needed a new "timing belt" as well. And sense I can't afford a new car right now, because I am only working part-time, and need transportation, I told him to fix it.

Plus, I was HOPING to get at least another year or two out of this car, because 2 years ago, I spent $2,000 dollars for a rebuilt transmission when the tranny went out, and last year I spent $800 dollars for a new fuel pump, and another $800 dollars on all new brakes and rotors! So in the last 2 years alone, I have sank $3,600 into this car!!!!

It took 2 days, and the cost was $800 bucks!!! So, I bring the car home, and find out that now, the engine is completely doing something else. What happens now, is that now the engine is leaking oil when the engine is COLD. When you 1st start the car and the engine is cold, oil DRIPS out. As the engine warms up, the leak slows down, and stops after the engine gets hot.

So I bring it back to the guy, and leave it there for another 2 days, and he calls me back and tells me that he "CAN'T find anything wrong with it, and doesn't see it dripping any oil", but yet charges me another $50 bucks to look at it.

So Monday night I put a piece of cardboard under there. Tuesday morning I go to start it up, and sure enough drip, drip, drip for about 10 minutes until coming to a stop.

Tuesday night I do the same thing, and put a new piece of cardboard there, and this morning I start it up, and once again drip, drip, drip, for about 5-10 minutes until the engine gets warm.

So I call the guy back, and told him that its still dripping when cold, and he says "That's strange", he never heard of anything like this before?? So now he wants me to drop it off again for another couple of days so that he can "look at it again"??

So does anybody know what the heck is going on here, and what the big "MYSTERY" is??? Why does the engine leak oil when cold, and then stop leaking oil after it warms up?

Does the "crankshaft seal" need time to expand or something??

Any info. and or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!

Thanks!

Reply to
MICHELLE H.
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This sounds to me like you are having a typical deferred maintenance experience. If you don't do preventative maintenance, you do repairs instead.

Cars cost money. I hope you're changing your transmission fluid now and then so you don't ruin your new transmission.

What is happening is that something under pressure is leaking, and when the engine warms up, it expands and seals the gap that is leaking. Look underneath and see if you can figure out where it's coming from.

Typical sources of this kind of thing can be as simple as a loose oil filter or as difficult as a head gasket. Another popular one is the oil pan gasket.

Gaskets get old and hard, and they need replacing. Your car is also old enough that just about all the rubber parts are probably due for replacement if you haven't done them already. You need to do regular maintenance or things will break at inopportune times.

Dunno, look around it and see if the drip is coming from there. But if you have one seal going, it's quite possible you have more than one.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the response, I really do appreciate it! If you are standing at the bumper facing the engine, the oil drip is coming from the left side somewhere under where the belt is at. You CAN'T see the leak from the top of the engine.

When the car is running, and you look under the engine, you can see the oil dripping when the engine is cold, but you can't really see where its coming from unless the car is up on a lift, or if you crawl under it with eye goggles on or something.

But, it looks to be coming from the same spot as it was before this guy replaced the "crank seal" when the oil was pouring out when the engine was running.

Also, the guy who did the repair didn't replace the "rear main seal", he replaced the "crank seal" and "timing belt".

I let the car sit for about an hour after letting it warm up this morning, and started it up again, and there was about 3-6 more drips, and then it stopped. So the colder the engine is, the more it leaks. The warmer the engine is, the less it leaks?

So, do you think this guy installed the "crank seal" or "timing belt" wrong?? Should I bring the car back to him when he had it for 2 whole days a few days ago, and claimed that he "can't find anything wrong with it"??

And yes. last year my regular mechanic of 10+ years did charge me $800 bucks to replace the fuel pump!!! He said that it was located in the gas tank, and that he had to drain out all the gas, and take the whole fuel tank apart, and that it was "very labor intensive".

Then when my brakes started to go, he charged me another $800 for all new brakes and rotors!!! And the year before that I spent $2,000 to have the tranny rebuilt.

So now I have spent like $4,400 dollars on this stupid car in 3 years, when its probably got a "Kelly Blue Book" value of what $500 bucks!?

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

I don't know if it was the front or rear crank seal? On the receipt it only states "Replace Timing belt" and "Replace Crank Seal".

So I don't know which one he replaced, but when the oil was pouring out, it was coming out from the front of the engine, about 1 foot from the front bumper.

One thing I did notice though, is that when I go to check the oil, I notice that there is all kinds of little Black fragments in the oil on the dipstick?? When I clean the dipstick off and check the oil again, the little Black fragments are in the oil again??

Could this be a disintegrating gasket?

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Well, I just started the car after letting it sit for a few hours, and this time I looked under the car while the engine was running. The oil looks to be dripping where the front "crankseal" and "timing belt" meet. There is a pulley there ( which moves the timing belt ), and it seems to be leaking right where that pulley is.

You can also see that the brand new timing belt is covered in oil. As the engine warms up, the leak slows down and ALMOST comes to a stop, even though it really just slows down to a slow oil drip.

But then when the engine gets warm, it looks to be leaking another slow drip in a different spot, right above ( about 1/2 inch so ), above one of the crank seal bolts.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

You've got get a second opinion from a different mech about what the issue is, then get the first mech to fix it if it's related to what he did. See if you can have the "second opinion" mech call the first one to get a straight story from him. Might work. Good luck. There is a possibility the current leak is unrelated to the first leak, which I recall you said was massive. Could have masked the current problem. Don't jump to conclusions until you get a good second opinion.

--Vic

Reply to
Vic Smith

Showing the mechanic the oily belt should give him a good idea of the source of the leak. There's a chance that he'll want to charge you for the additional work but you should inquire anyway.

If your car is like most, you can't see the timing belt. What you're seeing is some other kind of belt that may or may not have been replaced. Good luck and hopefully your mechanic will do the right thing.

Reply to
dsi1

Hummmmm a 15 year old dodge 3.0 with 175,000 miles, leaking oil, Remove and reseal engine, 15 hours labour + gaskets, test and recheck. Or time for a newer set of wheels?

I'm afraid your looking for the no money miracle.

Reply to
rss1

Hummmmm a 15 year old dodge 3.0 with 175,000 miles, leaking oil, Remove and reseal engine, 15 hours labour + gaskets, test and recheck. Or time for a newer set of wheels?

I'm afraid your looking for the no money miracle.

******** I tried to help someone with a Dodge like this, thinking that a little money in repair could solve several years of poor maintenance on a vehicle that, in my not so humble opinion, is and was a disaster to begin with. But as in this case, fix one thing and soon two more would happen to fill the gap.

Sometimes one just puts too much money into a situation like this.

(My daughter bought one of these things, against parental advice, and ended up replacing three engines and two trannies. I doubt the hemorrhaging is healed yet.)

The OPs mechanic may have been honestly trying to do a good job and just got bitten by the Chrysler curse, or he may have charged her for a good job and was incompetent, or something in between.

There isnt much that can be done to rectify the expenditures at this point in the story unless (1)she has proof that she didnt get what she paid for and (2) she lives in a state like Texas where you have a strong deceptive trade practices law that can be used to get some relief.

It isnt too hard to clean off an engine (if you need to), and get under there with a light and a mirror and find out where the oil is dripping from. Then figuring out what to do to fix it (or fix at it, as the case may be) can be a decision to lose sleep over.

If oil is dripping on her serpentine, something has to be done. One more look, by a different mechanic, is probably advisable.

Reply to
hls

That does indeed sound like the problem isn't fixed.

That's not the timing belt that is covered, it's a fan belt. Those are inexpensive and easy to replace, the timing belt is expensive and hard to replace.

Take it back to the man and have him tear it apart again. It is _no fun_ working on this stuff.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Just wanted to give everyone another update and tell whats going on. I brought the car back to the guy on Thursday afternoon, and he kept the car there till Saturday afternoon.

Once again, he said that he checked the car for any oil leaks, but said that he "couldn't find anything wrong with it".

Now, here is where it gets good. I specifically told this guy to leave the car parked on the GROUND, and to put a piece of clean cardboard under the engine, and then don't start the car until morning.

Well, he didn't do that, and mumbled something about "putting cardboard under the engine got nothing to do with it", and he PUT THE CAR UP ON THE LIFT so that he could get a "birds eye view".

Also, get this when this guy replaced the "crank seal" and timing belt, he put 4 quarts of new oil in the engine, but DIDN'T replace the oil filter!?

He said that "the oil filter looked pretty clean on the OUTSIDE so he figured it was good".=A0Which is NOT true, because actually the car was OVERDUE for an oil change!!!

So get this, he tells me that it will cost me "another $20 dollars" for him to change the oil filter which I believe SHOULD have been done the first time when he charged me $850 for the "crank seal" and "timing belt".

So, I said fine whatever, I'll pay the stupid $20.

I go to pick up the car today ( Saturday ), and when I get there, he hands me a bill for $78 DOLLARS!!!!!! I was like "what the hell", and he tells me that while the car was there, he "topped off all the fluids, cleaned the brakes, and changed the spark plugs"!!!

I NEVER even asked for all that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The car was there so that he could fix the OIL LEAK!!!!!!! He told me "Oh, the plugs looked old and dirty, so I changed them for you".

Then on my way home, I stop off at the grocery store to get some groceries, and when I leave the grocery store about an hour later, the car HAS A HARD TIME STARTING!!!

The when I get home, I look at the oil filter, and its some GENERIC one that I never even heard of!? Its called "ProMotive Oil Filter".

This is just getting ridiculous!!!

I let the car sit for a few hours, and then put a clean piece of cardboard under it, and start it up, and then sure enough drip, drip, drip, for 5-10 minutes!!!!!!

Plus now the car is starting hard, which it sure didn't do 2 days ago!!! I think this guy did something to it ON PURPOSE so that I have to bring it back to him AGAIN for the 4th time in less than 2 weeks!!!!!

AND for those of you wondering "what kind of mechanic this guy is and what kind of place he works at?".

The guy is a mechanic at a USED CAR DEALERSHIP!!!! And I am NOT talking about some big name used car dealership, I am talking about one of those small places on the side of the road that has like 10 cars maximum in the lot.

The ONLY reason why I went to this guy was because my regular mechanic "heard that the guy does engine work for cheap".

My regular mechanic of 10+ years knows that money is tight for me right now because I am only working part-time, and he has HEARD from other people that this other guy does engine work for about $400 or so. But my regular mechanic DOESN'T ACTUALLY KNOW this other guy personally!!!!

Well, it looks like me regular mechanic was off by $400 bucks, because this other guy charged me $850 for the "crank seal" and "timing belt".

Then he charges me another $20 to change the oil filter which should have been done THE FIRST TIME, and he charges me $58 TO "TOP OFF THE FLUIDS, CLEAN THE BRAKES, AND CHANGE THE PLUGS, WHICH I NEVER EVEN ASKED FOR!!!!!!!!

Well, next week I am going to bring it to a new guy. A REAL mechanic at a REAL auto repair shop, where my Aunt has been bringing her car for years, and has been HAPPY with the service there.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

(snip)

Take notes on a notepad when you take it to be fixed: Where, why, when, who, what.

Get an estimate in writing for the job stating exactly what the charges will be for. Any changes will require a "change order" ok'd by you before the changes are acted upon.

Tell them before the job starts that you will need an explanation in writing exactly what was done and parts replaced. Take the old parts home with you even if you just throw them out.

Take the piece of cardboard to show them.

Reply to
Paul

Maybe if you tape some cardboard under your car before you leave home and take your car to that cheap mechanic?

See your State Attorney General's office about that cheap mechanic. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

Both times that I brought the car back to him, I DID bring the oil soaked cardboard wit me to show him, but thats when he mumbled something about how "cardboards got nothing to do with it".

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Oh my. You are probably out the money that you have paid him. An attorney will cost much, much more than what you have in it.

Hope the new mech/tech is better. If he finds that the first mech did shoddy work, I would be tempted to file in small claims court in your state. No atty needed and has to be under a certain amt.

Reply to
Paul

Sounds like you found out why he is a "cheap" hack. Take the car to a good mechanic. Have it looked over and see what comes up. Consider taking the other shop to small claims AND send a letter to the local BBB about him as well.

Reply to
Steve W.

Get on the web and tell everybody you know, tell the whole wide World, (there are about 168-169 Countries in the World) about that cheap so-called mechanic.

You can get a new piece of cardboard and go to his parking lot and lay the piece of cardboard under the car.Get him to look under there and check out the oil drips.

Don't Get Mad, Get Even! ~ George Hayduke - - Book Of Dirty Tricks. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

I totally believe that this guy took advantage of me because I am female. I mean like I said, I brought the car back to him for the third time in less than a week, so that he can fix the oil leak, and he ends up "topping off the fluids, cleaning the brakes, and changing the spark plugs", all because he "had the car there".

Plus, like I said, shouldn't the oil filter have been changed the 1ST TIME when he charged me the $850 for the "crank seal" and "timing belt" repair???

He claimed that the "OUTSIDE of the filter looked clean", so he didn't change the oil filter. Then when I told him that I wanted the oil filter changed, he said "okay, but it's gonna be another $20 bucks".

Then he puts on some oil filter called "ProMotive" which I never even heard of before???

Like I said, this guy is a mechanic at a used car dealership on the side of the road. And its not some big name place, its a little used car dealership with like 10 cars in the lot.

So I know the guy took me for a ride and ripped me off because I am female. Heck, I go to pick up my car, and the guy is stuffing his face with a party size pizza and a 6 pack of Miller Lite.

Stuffing his face and sucking down beers with my money!!!!!!

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Get a pan. Put it under the car to catch the leaking oil. Leave it there for a couple days. Then get a big white marker and mark where the oil leak is on the engine.

Take the pan into the mechanic and pour it on his desk. Point out that this is oil, that you don't like oil on your floor any more than he likes it on his. Point out the arrow on the side of the engine marked OIL LEAK.

It's too late to have him undo the rest of the stuff he did (which may well have been a good idea to do, but he should have asked). But at least you can get him to fix the thing it came in for.

If you put it on a credit card you can ask the credit card company to decline the charges until the car is actually fixed, too.

Probably not, I probably wouldn't have bothered unless I was changing all the oil. But then, I'd look and see if there was a maintenance record on the car too.

That's fine, there are good and bad people everywhere. But I will tell you that sometimes the guy who charges the most money _per hour_ winds up being the cheapest guy to do the job.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Well, when the car went in the 1ST time, the leak was so bad, that the car wouldn't old ANY oil while running!!!! It was a MAJOR leak, and it lost about 1 quart of oil every 5 minutes the engine was running.

When the car was towed to him the 1ST time, the oil dipstick was actually under the "Add" point. So yes, he did have to put all new oil (

4 quarts ) in the engine after he changed the "crank seal".

Thats why I can't believe how he didn't change the filter too!? How can you put 4 quarts of new clean oil in the engine and leave the same oil filter on the car, just because the filter "looked clean on the outside"!?

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

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