Engine Overheating Followup

I seemed to have had my wrist slapped for cross-posting this and even doing it incorrectly. Anyway, thanks for the help with part 1 diagnosis of my 88 toyota pickup and would appreciate help with this next part

So it seems there is a leak or at least no antifreeze to see in the rad

and little to none in the overflow. The oil is not milky and the antifreeze overflow ( what little there is) does not seem contaminated either. Water pump seems fine (no noise, no visible leak, no movement of pulley), now the question of finding the leak and I have still not ruled out head gasket --can you lose that much antifreeze via exhaust??

I have noticed some white exhaust but it is cold presently and I see many cars with similar white exhaust.

For the moment, I am going to top up the existing fluid with a economy antifreeze 50/50 mix with distilled water with the intent of flushing the system once I figure out where the leak is. Of course, there is no pool of fluid under the vehicle which is good and bad.

The responses have been very helpful and if anyway would like to offer suggestions for the next step, it would be greatly appreciated.

Reply to
gp
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Yes, it is possible to lose that much coolant via the exhaust.

If the coolant was coming out the exhast you should it would look more like smoke.

Top up the radiator and resevoir and then check for leaks. The easiest way to do this would be with a cooling system pressure tester. They are available at most auto parts stores or any decent garage would have one. Places to check for leaks: water pump gasket and weep hole, all hose connections, heater core, the radiator seams, fins and petcock. Also check the engine block for leaking freeze plugs. Once you fill the system back up the may be obvious.

Reply to
Mike

Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for

50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.

Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.

Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by others and/or somthing that is very evident?

Reply to
gp

It would be very helpful if you quoted some previous posts so that people responding would know and remember what has been suggested already as well as other pertinent info like year, model, mileage, symptoms, etc.

I would not pressure test an 18 year old cooling system because Murphy's law will kick in and cause additional cooling system leaks. I've seen this happen numerous times.

Coolant coming out of the exhaust tends to be white steam and will have a sweet smell like coolant. It is normal to see white clouds coming out of the exhaust when you first start the engine until it is thoroughly warmed up and the condensation in the exhaust has burned off. Depending on the ambient temperature, the amount of white clouds you see should diminish but if you still see billowing clouds out the exhaust, then that could mean that coolant is getting into the combustion chambers somehow.

Reply to
Ray O

MY PSYCHIC POWERS PREDICT A BAD RADIATOR CAP.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

It is normal for that engine to have a slight builup on the underside of the oil filler cap when operated in cold weather. As long as it is only a thin film you should be ok. All the 4 cyl toyotas I have seen will do that in cold weather.

I would just fill the cooling sytem back up making sure you bleed out all the air and the have it pressure tested for leaks. If all is ok drive it and see if your problem returns, it may just be a sticking thermostat. If the thermostat hasn't been changed in a long time I would do that also. I would also replace the radiator cap as others have also stated. If after all the above and you find no leaks then have a leak down test done.

If you have coolant in the exhaust you should be able to smell it. It has a very distinct sweet smell.

Reply to
Mike

You originally didn't "cross-post", you posted individual messages to many separate groups. That's not the same thing at all.

I see you've cross-posted correctly with this message. You've posted to only three groups, and all of them are reasonably related to your problem.

Congratulations for learning your lesson. :)

Reply to
Hugo Schmeisser

I bought the vehicle about 2 years ago and do like it a lot -the rad and a lot of the houses seem to be in very good condition. It is a 1988 toyota p/u 2wd, 2.4L, 4cyl, 22re engine with 190,000 km on it (marketed as a one ton). It had one previous owner. I am grasping at any positve news that it is not a head gasket. I have not smelt any sweet smell from the exhaust or excessive --have been smelling rubber, but think that is b/c new exhaust was placed a bit close to undermount spare tire

--hope it is not a rubber smell --no billowing clouds out the exhaust. Tonight I will top it up with fresh antifreeze/good water mix, run it with cap off, replace with new cap, and monitor the overflow container. I will hold off on a pressure test for the moment and see how it goes. Not sure when the thermostat was last changed, but that would not explain coolant lose, would it?? Anyway, I do not mind taking it to a shop in the near future, but I like to have some info if and when it comes to that. Also, all this info has been useful so next time, I can catch this earlier as there were signs that this was happening, like longer for heater to heat inside, heat guage going up higher than normal and then falling rapidly to a better baseline but this was in that past 2 weeks, when the heat guage finally went up to red and luckily I stopped and hope there was no damage done.

I will also copy and post from last series of dignosis.

Reply to
gp

I bought the vehicle about 2 years ago and do like it a lot -the rad and a lot of the houses seem to be in very good condition. It is a 1988 toyota p/u 2wd, 2.4L, 4cyl, 22re engine with 190,000 km on it (marketed as a one ton). It had one previous owner. I am grasping at any positve news that it is not a head gasket. I have not smelt any sweet smell from the exhaust or excessive --have been smelling rubber, but think that is b/c new exhaust was placed a bit close to undermount spare tire

--hope it is not a rubber smell --no billowing clouds out the exhaust. Tonight I will top it up with fresh antifreeze/good water mix, run it with cap off, replace with new cap, and monitor the overflow container. I will hold off on a pressure test for the moment and see how it goes. Not sure when the thermostat was last changed, but that would not explain coolant lose, would it?? Anyway, I do not mind taking it to a shop in the near future, but I like to have some info if and when it comes to that. Also, all this info has been useful so next time, I can catch this earlier as there were signs that this was happening, like longer for heater to heat inside, heat guage going up higher than normal and then falling rapidly to a better baseline but this was in that past 2 weeks, when the heat guage finally went up to red and luckily I stopped and hope there was no damage done.

I will also copy and post from last series of dignosis.

Reply to
gp

Thanks, I see the benefits to it (cross-posting correctly) too for all involved.

Reply to
gp

I would not recommend a pressure test on an 18 year old cooling system.

Reply to
Ray O

I would not pressure test an 18 year old system unless whoever is doing the test is very careful not to over-pressurize the system and actually cause leaks.

A bad thermostat can indirectly cause coolant loss because if it overheats and turns to steam, it will flow out of the overflow tube. A bad radiator cap can also cause coolant loss and overheating. The low coolant level can cause a no heat condition. Also check to make sure the fins in the radiator are not clogged and hindering airflow through the radiator, and that the fan clutch is engaging.

Reply to
Ray O

That's common when it's cold outside. If the white smoke continues after the engine and exhaust are fully warmed up, then you have a problem.

Reply to
Bob M.

Why not ? If the cooling system is in that poor of a condition that a pressure test will cause it to fail, those parts needed to be replaced anyway. Think of it this way. If it were my vehicle I would rather have a failure in the shop rather than on the road. He has already stated that it was overheating, the coolant was boiling in the radiator and being blown into the resevoir.That is already a toture test of the cooling system.

Reply to
Mike

Exactly right! The reason for a pressure test is too find a leak or a weak point in the cooling system. What benefit is their in putting off finding the problem until help is miles away? Bob

Reply to
Bob

A cooling system pressure test is not all it's cracked up to be. With the engine running at operating temperature, if there is a leak, you'll see it. I've seen careless technicians overpressurize the cooling system and cause problems. If the radiator cap is working properly, it will act like a pressure relief valve and vent excess pressure. Hooking a pump up to the radiator neck means that you do not have the cap to relieve pressure if too much builds up. Testing or replacing the cap is a much safer course of action. I've visited a lot of dealerships and looked at a lot of problem vehicles and have never had to resort to a pressure test.

Reply to
Ray O

I went to the dealer and bought a new rad cap, easy fix and this weekend, I am going to add new antifreeze and distilled water, and run it to see. As for letting bubbles out air, am I right to assume that I start the engine cold and pour the antifreeze/water in while it is running? Also, I noticed Canadian tire markets special deionized water, am I okay with distilled since I already bought it.

Reply to
gp

To pressure test or not:

I emailed a pretty big Radiator garage about a pressure test and this is what they said; "The best we can offer to you at the present time is to bring your vehicle in this Saturday and we will pressure test your system for free and hopefully find out where your coolant is going. More than likely, if you have never noticed any coolant on the ground (leaks) your vehicle probably has a intake or head gasket leak."

It is free, I am inclined to do it this Saturday morning and let the chips fall where they may. My thinking is usually, if it ain't broke, but it is broke, so may as well go for it.

Reply to
gp

To refill the coolant, first set the heater control all the way to hot. With the engine cold, fill the radiator to the bottom of the neck and the overflow bottle to just above the "cold" line. With the radiator cap off, start the engine and watch the coolant level in the radiator. As the thermostat opens, the coolant level should begin to drop. As this happens, gradually top off the coolant until it no longer goes down and replace the radiator cap. A properly functioning radiator cap should allow some coolant in the overflow bottle to get sucked into the radiator to completely fill the last bit. Watch the level in the overflow bottle - if it is going down quickly, then coolant is either going out the exhaust or leaking.

Distilled water is fine for mixing with concentrated coolant. A lot of people use tap water, which contains minerals that will eventually cause build up in the cooling system. The factory fill is mixed with distilled water.

Reply to
Ray O

A pressure test is just a tool to help locate leaks faster, nothing more.

With the

Maybe, maybe not. A properly operating cooling system doesn't always build enough pressure to make the system leak.

I've never seen that happen once in over 25 years. However, I have seen weak hoses burst, weak radiators start leaking, etc....WITHOUT overpressuring the cooling system. These parts were bad and would have failed under normal operating conditions once the necessary pressure was reached. Fortunately, for the customer, it happened in the shop and not on the road. Are you confusing " careless tchnicians " with weakened parts ?

If the radiator cap is working properly, it will act like a

My pressure tester does the same thing. It has a built in pressure relief and won't go over 19 lbs.

Testing or replacing the cap is a much safer course of

How does testing or replacing a cap pressurize a system to help find a leak ?

I've visited a lot of dealerships and looked at a lot of problem

So what. You act like a pressure tester is someting to avoid at all costs. It's just a tool. How it's used is up to the person using it. If you pressurize a cooling system and a hose fails it is not beacause of the pressure test. The hose was bad and would have failed anyway during normal use as soon as the cooling system reached that pressure. Try finding that weak hose without a pressure tester.

Reply to
Mike

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