GM: First VOLT, NOW Spark..

My guess is that there will be a lot of small companies manufacturing small runs of nitch cars due to the ease of configuring and assembling a drivetrain. If you consider how it greatly simplifies the automobile and that emissions standards won't be a factor, it's a no-brainer. The future looks great for sports and enthusiast vehicles. That's my guess anyway.

Reply to
dsi1
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The solution to the range problem is technically simple, but economically infeasible. It requires a level of cooperation that the automakers won't tolerate because it cuts their profit.

We need a STANDARD tiny trailer module with a generator just big enough to drive the car on the freeway. Works with any electric car this year, next year, the year after that.

For the occasional trip that exceeds your battery range, you pull into the gas station and rent the generator. Return it to any other gas station. You could buy one for $1000. That's WAY cheaper than a second car you rarely need.

Reply to
mike

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Batteries!? We don't need no steenkin batteries!

A guy in Norway, his name is Finsrud (something like that) invented and built a so-called perpetual motion machine. cuhulin

Reply to
J R

What can I say???? Troll power at work.

Reply to
hls

It's an interesting idea but the idea of my wife driving around with a trailer hooked on the back of a car is frighting. I'm not so crazy about hauling an extra pair of wheels either. How about a module that can be attached to the roof or trunk?

There's a lot of families with a second car. My guess is that people will buy an electric car but will keep a gas car when they need the range.

Eventually, the technology will improve and people will learn how to live with an electric and then you'll start to see two electric car families. I'm giving that around 13 years. Some people would find that optimistic but look how fast digital cameras took over once people got familiar with the technology.

Reply to
dsi1

That won't fly. IMO the only answer to the long-range problem is standardized batteries, and swap-out stations, which also have the grid capacity to charge the batteries. Basically pull in under an overhead crane instead of next to a pump. Large factories have had such mini-systems for decades, for forklifts. No self-serve. You wouldn't even own the battery, but pay for the juice it delivered. That would be metered in the car, and read at the station. The logistics are daunting. It would take the fed government to set the standards. Battery swap access would put constraints on styling. Auto manufacturers can't even agree on what side the gas filler goes. That's why hybrids like the Prius and Volt are the only "electrics" that are practical for more than short-range commuting. Gas has to hit about 10 bucks in today's dollars before pure electrics gain more than very limited sales. Then the other big issue is you need more nuke generating plants. Personally, my dream is nuke cars, cutting out the refueling station middleman mess, except for refueling every 5 years. Could be kryptonite, if that works. Have to leave that to the scientists and engineers.

--Vic

Reply to
Vic Smith

Yup. My wife drives the '97 Lumina to work and we use it for long trips too. I have a '93 Grand Am as a second car that I use "locally." An electric would work fine for her commute and 99% of our driving. The problem is cost. That doesn't bother some people, but for most people cost is a big factor. High gas cost is the only thing that can change that. Most people do some math before deciding.

--Vic

Reply to
Vic Smith

Sooner or later an electric car will come out that will change everything and make buying an electric car an attractive choice. It hasn't come out yet but it will.

Reply to
dsi1

I think you're right about that - the battery packs will be standardized and modular and easily swapped out.

Reply to
dsi1

I used to have one of those, it's a nice car when it's working. I didn't drive it much but it seemed to require a lot of attention to the front brakes. I gave it to my son and he had a slight fender bender that totaled the car. That's OK, it had a leaking intake manifold anyway. Do you have a problem with closing the trunk? Learning to slam that sucker down took some getting used to. :-)

Reply to
dsi1

That doesn't make it impractical, it just makes it unsuitable for less then 10% of my driving. Other then the cost, an electric would be just fine for 90% of my driving.

Do you not buy a "regular" car because it's impractical to haul a ton of steer manure in it and you need to haul BS 10% of the time? Rhetorical question, some people would and some wouldn't but few would claim a "regular" car is impractical for everyone because of that 10% need.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

No problems not expected for a car with 105k miles for $2500. We put another 60k on it so far. The usual stuff for this type car, maybe a grand in parts. Starter, alt, radiator, condenser, compressor, window motor, signal switch, motor mount. One of each over 6 years. And struts. lower ball joints and tie rod ends. My son does any work needed, and I usually assist. Original calipers, maybe second set of pads. Except for the A/C failing me twice while on vacationing in Florida, it's been 100% reliable. We finally tracked that down. We put the "improved" manifold gasket in this year, before the original failed on us. One day downtime, first time down for more than a couple hours. No issue with the trunk lid closing. Maybe because my son put a Monte Carlo trunk filler to match the boneyard lenses. One lens was taped up it when I bought it, so the kid put Monte lenses in when he didn't find any Luminas in the yard. In fact, the trunk lid has the opposite problem - too heavy for the spring. A slight breeze will swing it down on your head. Both me and my wife have been whacked. Despite all this, it's my 2nd favorite car. Entirely predictable.

--Vic

Reply to
Vic Smith

Perhaps you, but for myself and just about anyone else that I know an electric car would be useless for 90% or more of our driving. I can run to the grocery store, take a cross-country trip, hitch up a trailer to do hauling, all with the same vehicle - which with proper care will run for decades without needing major repairs. (I've been driving the same car for over 30 years without need for an overhaul. Now just how long will those batteries last and how much will they cost to replace?)

There is no way with their current state of development that electrics are going to be as flexible or usable as a vehicle with a conventional drivetrain, period. The primary appeal of electric cars is to stoopid hippies and self-proclaimed "visionaries" who have their heads up their asses.

Reply to
Roger Blake

It a comfortable, roomy, and quiet car. The styling was pretty slick and still looks sleek even though car styling has gone in a different direction since the Lumina came out.

My favorite Chevy was the humble 1984 Cavalier. My wife hit a car once with it. My understanding is that she totaled the car she hit and damaged the car in front of that one. She said the car in the middle looked like an accordion. I just replaced the bumper, the energy absorption thingies, a headlight, and the car was fine. I think it cost me less than $150. Parts were so cheap for Chevys that I felt guilty about it. The automatic L4 gave me 26 MPG which is still a mystery to me since all my other cars since then only gave me 22 MPG at best. Thanks Chevy!

Reply to
dsi1

I didn't care for the Lumina styling at first. Now it always looks fine to me. That's happened every time I got my money back from a car, and it was reliable. And bad cars got ugly looking.

We had an '85 my wife drove to work for 5 years. The 2.0 was solid, and there weren't many problems excepting rust. Starter, heater core, water pump, ECU all went out. Stranded my wife 3 times, but it was my fault once because I knew the starter was going bad. Probably should have done the water pump too. I do that now once they go about 60k miles. They're cheap. No predicting the ECU going out. But that worked out well. It failed right in front of an auto repair place, and they ran out and pushed her off the street. That's how I found the mech I used for about 7 years until my kid took over. It went about 140k miles, all city for the 50k miles I had it. Paid $900 bucks for it when it was 8 years old. I'd do that again for a second car, but you can't find "such a deal" now it seems. Decent 8-year-old cars go for a few g's. What I like about GM cars is I'm familiar with them, and they're cheap to buy used. That hasn't been good for GM, but it has for me.

--Vic

Reply to
Vic Smith

I'm kind of a tech guy so it's pretty funny that my one of my most reliable and favorite cars should have a pushrod 4. It certainly was novel to have a car that didn't have a bulge on the top of the head.

I think that you're right that we'll never have such a deal like that again.

Reply to
dsi1
1839.Robert Anderson of Aberdeen,Scotland built the first electric vehicle.
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cuhulin
Reply to
J R

Well, there's no way to do the experiment but I'm certain that if you were giving cars away free and offered people their choice of the Volt or the equivalent other GM car it's based on, at least 70% of them would take the Volt without hesitation. The only thing holding back the electrics from taking over the majority of the market is purchase price.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

Problem is that they will NOT BE AVAILABLE! Try to find a battery for a ten-year-old laptop. Yes, you can find an unused battery that's been sitting in a shipping container at 140F for a decade. I mean try to find a NEW battery that really works. There's no standardization. Technology is moving fast. Vendors have no interest in keeping your old system working; they want to sell you a new one.

Ever heard of a free operating system called linux? Can't beat the price. And it really will do 99% of what you need. You just need another system for that other 1%. How well is that doing in the single-user consumer market?

Problem was forecast decades ago by Wilson Pickett... "ninety-nine and a half just won't do".

An electric car is a throwaway item that lets the rich flaunt their extravagance.

Gimme a vehicle that can do 100 miles in a hilly residential area between 40F and 90F after the battery is 10 years old, and I'm ready to buy.

Reply to
mike

Standardized batteries won't ever fly. There's just too much money to be made in proprietary (high margin) designs. And technology changes faster than the useful life of a car. The generator trailer attaches to the only standardized thing...the wall plug. And you can put batteries in the trailer, or a fuel cell, or whatever comes next. And you don't need it for 99% of your driving. Only when you go over the river and thru the woods to grandmothers house do you need the extra range.

Another thing that would help is a secure vehicle lock that could be used with multiple vehicles, but only one at a time. Then your insurance company would only have to charge you for ONE vehicle, instead of the two that you need to make electric practical. Yeah right!!!

Reply to
mike

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