lifter: stuck or "collapsed"?

Do you mean a 2.2? the 2.4 DOHC doesn't have rocker arms.

Well it could be a bad lifter. The guts are close tolerance and small chunks of crud can clog the valve and oil feed.

Yeah, 2.2. (I remember it as "not what I think it is," and I used to think it was a 2.0. I guess that means my memory is improving?)

It's pretty definitely the lifter. The question I have is whether to bother trying the oil flush thing, or just go to plan B.

Could be a worn down cam.

-jim

An eighth of an inch, overnight?

Assuming it is the lifter, can a 'stuck' lifter (ie, one that can possibly recover) be down that far? Or, (assuming it is the lifter), would it needed to be hopelessly damaged.

I just don't want to bother doing the flush-and-drain thing, if there's no point.

An eighth inch is a lot of play, IMO. As you say the lifter may be bad, or the oil pressure to the lifter may be lacking or blocked off.

On some of the older engines, (Pontiac) the pressed-in rocker stud would back out over time, and the only cure was to tap them back in and pin them, or thread the tower and install threaded rocker studs.

In this case, I would give this baby a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil and drive it a while to see if it would clean up. If so, then change the oil and keep it changed. There are other compounds than MMO but that one has worked for me.

Hydraulic lifters can accomodate a rather large misadjustment. An eighth of an inch is,IMO, certainly possible.

If the lifter drains down, sticks down, or doesnt have enough pressure to pump it up,then you can see what you are witnessing.

I have on occasion gone in and replaced the lifters and it worked. But just as many times, it hasnt. If you are going in that deep, it is foolish not to replace a cheapo lifter.

A lifter can certainly stick. Sometimes an additive will help. And this is cheap and easy to find out.

If you get no satisfaction, then you have to look deeper. Someone mentioned cam wear, and that has certainly happened before.

You are at the crux that you need to logically go through the possibilities and see how bad this engine really is..

Your previous post made it sound like the problem had progressed since last summer.

-jim

OK the 2.2 uses roller lifters. Probably either the spring failed which makes the internal valving junk. Not really common with newer vehicles but it does happen. It could be just crud BUT it's not easy to tell unless you have the lifter apart! You could try using an oil can filled with trans fluid and shoot it down through the pushrod and then work the plunger in the lifter with the pushrod. Not sure it will work but it won't hurt it. The other option would be replacing the lifter. The nice thing is that being a roller lifter you can replace just the bad one. Coat it with a good pre-lube though. But the head has to come off...

Yeah, that's Plan B. It's not very appealing - we'll probably have to replace the car by fall, anyway. (Major rust, among other things.)

I think I'll try your idea of pouring something down the pushrod.

Thanks, G

I have a 2.2 in a S10 in a similar situation. My oil pressure was very low at idle. Before i got the truck, the head gasket went and was replaced. I speculate that the cam bearings got some damage from coolant ingestion and thats killing the oil pressure to the top end.

I ran fine that way for a long time, then it got anemic and seemed to go down a cylinder. I had too much play in mine too. Still have not tore it down yet.

bob

I don't blame you. Use something that can give you a bit of pressure. You want to push the ATF into the lifter enough to get past the valve inside it. Then try GENTLE tapping with a small rubber hammer on the pushrod. If it's a sticking valve under the rod seat that sometimes frees them up.

If you get it to move but it's still got a lot of room you could shim under the head of the rocker stud. Check and see how much room you have before coil bind on a good valve first though. In the event the lifter decided to work you wouldn't want it to damage the head or the valve. Shim it just enough to give you about .002 or so clearance and pretend it has a solid lifter!