302 valve ticking/tapping...

Unfortunately that doesn't cure it. I've tried tightening it even more (slowly with engien running until it runs rough) and it doesn't do it. The heads don't have a whole lot of miles on them... I got them second hand but they did not have many miles on them when I got them, and I've only put

18,000 miles on them. They should have less than 25,000 miles. All the other rockers are quiet with adjusting to zero+1/4 turn.

I'm wondering if maybe the valve guide on that cylinder could be bad/worn on that valve, maybe letting the valve rock a little in the guide. The noise is a lower pitched noise than typical rocker noise. Don't know if that tells you anything though.

Cory

I don't remember for sure, but I don't believe it does. I'll test that as you mention though, and see if the noise goes away for a second. It would be nice if it was something as cheap and easy as a bad lifter. I kinda doubt it though, as I don't imagine moving the rocker that little bit has much affect on the lifter. The noise goes away if I push hard on the side of the valve spring and retainer, not touching the rocker arm.

Cory

temperature.

Instead of constantly just tightening the lifter which does nothing but limit its job why don't you measure the rocker travel. Do some real diagnosis. Install a dial indicator on a good rocker and measure the travel while slowly turning over the engine. Then do the same on the suspect rocker. Make sure that if the suspect bad rocker or cam lobe is a intake you put the dial indicator on a intake, if it is an exhaust, measure an exhaust. Your looking for the same travel. That will tell you if the cam lobe is worn down. Hell even a cheap Haynes manual talks about measuring cam lobe lift.

I remember now why I stopped reading and posting to this group. Too many smart-asses like you being rude. I think it's clear I've done a little more than just sit there tightening down on the rocker (can't tighten a lifter, except perhaps with a different spring, smart-ass).

In any case, while measuring the travel may be worthwhile, I don't understand how that may cause a ticking/tapping that would stop when applying pressure on the side of the valve. If the cam lobe were worn that should only result in less valve lift. Adjusting the rocker properly should ensure there is no noise as there is no slack anywhere from camshaft to valve. So, if you don't mind, I'm curious as to how a slightly worn cam lobe would make the rather loud noise my engien is making.

For what it's worth the motor only has 18,000 miles on it and was properly broken in, and looking down the head all rockers appear to have the same travel (I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but I've seen engines with wiped cam lobes and it was obvious to me that those particular valves were not opening as far as the others).

Cory

"Cory Dunkle" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

You can over tighten a lifter till the internal spring is collapsed, now it's a solid lifter. Once a lifter is adjusted it should never need adjusting.

In side your type of lifter is a plunger held up by a spring. There are two oil passage ways. there is also a check valve. The job of the lifter is to provide oil supply to the rocker through the lifter, that is done with the plunger. This is what happens. When the lifter is on the base of the cam lobe ( valve closed ) the oil passage on the side ( notice the hole is also in a grove ) of the lifter is feed with oil from the oil pump ( the lifter is also a valve of sorts ). This fills the space beneath the plunger. As the cam rotates and pushes the lifter up it's bore the hole in the side of the lifter moves up ( duh ). Now the lifter acts as a valve, the hole and grove is past the feed hole in the block, so the oil passage is closed. The space beneath the plunger is now full. As the lifter continues up it tries to push against the push rod which at this point the oil pressure in the lifter combined with the spring over comes the pressure of the valve spring. As the lifter gets towards the top of its travel the valve spring is near it's fully compressed state, because of this spring pressure of the valve over comes the oil pressure and spring pressure in the space below the plunger moving the plunger down into the lifter. The oil pressure in side the lifter raises up enough to open the check valve and that small amount of oil is now forced into the push rod. As the cam rotates to the down slope of the lobe the spring pressure from the valve pushes the lifter down into its bore. As the valve closes the spring pressure becomes less than the spring pressure in side the lifter, so now the plunger moves up in it's bore. Then the cycle starts over again. Eventually the push rod gets full so any extra oil gets pushed out lubing the rest of the valve train. That is why lifters always tick for a while when new ones are installed and why there is always a delay for oil squirting out the top of the push rod. That being said you can see why just tightening the valve does nothing but cause more problems. You run the risk of collapsing the lifter, that will starve the rest of the valve train of oil.

It only takes a few thousands to make lifter noise. Didnt you recently say you over heated this engine by running it with no coolant? Thats all it takes to destroy a lifter.

Never say never... After 200,000 miles there may be enough wear to need a little adjusting (a common problem with late model 302s with high mileage, slight tick in the valvetrain as the rocker arms are the positive stop type and therefore not adjsutable). There is also the fact that the lock nuts used on these heads _will_ loosen over time. It's a fact and unavoidable. Using polylocks will prevent rockers backing off, or using two lock nuts (instead of one) will help. I've never heard of an engine that does not need the rockers adjusted periodically. 200,000 miles and I imagine any engine will make a little rocker noise unless adjusted. You do mention lfiters needing adjustment though (which lifters can not be adjusted, to my knowledge), so maybe you are referring to something else. I am assuming you are referring to adjusting the rocker arms.

I have taken the lifter apart, cleaned and inspected it. It appears to be in good condition. Regardless, your explanation of how a hydraulic lifter works does not explain how a worn cam lobe will cause excess noise.

No, that was a 289 I had a good while ago (this engine is a 302). This engine has been treated properly it's entire life. It is a year old and has

18,000 miles on it. The heads were used for a few thousand miles on a different engine and have not been 'abused' or neglected.

At this point I'm thinking it's eitehr the valve spring/damper, or the valve guide. I don't see what else it could be that is causing this noise.

Cory

lmfao better reread that sentance

300K on my 91 vic, never adjusted. It's non- adjustable. Engine never apart. except for an intake gasket. That is only one example. Sorry kid, I've been around a hell of a lot longer than you. Just by the way the lifter operates and its design, no adjustment needed.

Then it's time to get out your measuring devices and check tolerances.

Cory, Get your heads redone and\or (at least) install a new cam and lifters already. There are lots of hypothetical failure scenarios, but....YOUR LIFTERS ARE WORN OUT.

I appreciate your love of your 67-68 Fords (My first car was a 68 XL\GT)(428\2x4\4-speed :)), but when all is said and done, they wear out after

37 years. No amount of throwing used parts at them will fix the problem.

Listen to Pick One instead of arguing with him, you might learn something. Tom

unavoidable.

Sorry kid, laws of physics and my experience both show that rocker arms will need periodic adjustment, unless perhaps polylocks are used. Standard locknuts will back off over time, especially if they have ever been removed after initial installation. It's a fact, get used to it. In the mean time, try learning some basic Usenet etiquette and trimming your quotes.

Cory

Lifters are 1 year old and have 18,000 miles on them. I was not aware a cam and lifters only last 18,000 miles. The heads have less than 25,000 miles on them. I was not aware heads only last 25,000 miles. If you read my posts in this thread you would know that this is a low mileage motor that has been cared for and not abused.

Cory

Sorry for being snide in my reply. I was grouchy about something from my day today when I posted that. For wahtever reason you didn't read the part where I metnioned the mileage on the motor. No biggie. The motor has low miles on it and has been broken in properly and treated right, so it should not be having any bad lifters or anything like that so soon in it's life. I would expect at least 100,000 miles out of this motor without any major failures, probably double that though.

I don't understand how a lifter would make the noise that the engine is aming, and if it is the lifter, why does the noise go away when the engine is running and I push on the side of the valve spring? I also have taken the lifter apart and cleaned and inspected it. I soaked it in cleaner and didn't see anything wrong with it (no abnormal wear, everything appeared alright), so I put it back in. Before I go pulling the engine apart to get to the lifter and then taking the lifter apart again and possibly replacing it I'd like to know how or why a lifter might make that noise and what about pushing on the side of the valve spring might make the noise stop. I just don't wanna know why I'm gonna do something before I do it.

Cory

Cory, As I understand it, there has been a quality control problem with aftermarket lifters for the last 2-3 years. I don't now the specifics, but I know a number of rebuilders who have commented on the fact. Maybe someone else here knows what I'm speaking of? Anyone? Sorry Cory, last I heard you we're still cobbling on your old 289\302s. I thought this was a problem with one of those high mileage motors. BTW, I just picked up a 68 Custom with a 351\3 on the tree. It's roached but the driveline is OK. Need parts?

Tom

I would love the transmission and clutch setup out of that car (maybe the steering column and shifter too)! Heck, I've been wanting a bigger motor. I was thinking of trying a cheap 460 build if the right motor came along. Was hoping I could find something I could get away with a quick re-ring and new bearings, and put a C6 behind it, but maybe a 351W would work well enough (is that 351 an FE or Windsor?). If you seriously wanna part it out I may be interested in the clutch pedal setup, possibly more in you're close enough (I'm in NJ).

Anyhow, I kind hate to take the intake off but for the price of a lifter and an intake manifold gasket it may be worth it even if only to eliminate the lifter as a problem for sure.

Cory

Cory, The 351 in this car was a Cleveland (I was mistaken, it's a 69). We bought it for the motor. The 3 speed trans is ok but the column is worn out. (Cheap floor shifter). Contact me off the group newton5@at. comcast.net You can figure that out, no? I might be able to hook you up with Ford parts. Tom

Show an engine with hydraulic tappets that has a recommended periodic adjustment. What law of physics are you implying? The fact is that if the lifter starts to tap it's because of reasons like the internal spring is weak. Tightening down on it only limits the travel of the plunger. That could and does cause the plunger to bottom out. You just created a new tap. Because of the smaller travel of the plunger, less oil is sent to the rocker, you just wiped out the rocker and valve head. If the bottom of tappet has worn enough to tap, the cam lobe is worn also. That extra play will damage the rod, rocker and valve head. A common problem of engine with solid tappets that have not been adjusted regularly.

Backing off locking nuts? Don't think so.

Meaning you did not do the job correctly, they are supposed to be replaced.

Why dont like to read?

Get used to it, things happen. Why do you suppose new car dealerships have service departments?