Rust holes

I have a '99 Pontiac Grand Prix SE. I went away to school for the winter and my parents drove my car while i was gone. They don't take good care of it because when i got home i found two small holes, one on either rocker panel. I have had rust before and used a rust converter and repainted the rust spots but its keeps coming back, but now it's even worse. I have to fix the rust before I head back to school because I am taking my car with me and my dad says that it won't pass inspection with the rust spots. I am planning on getting rid of the the car in two years when i get out of school and use it for a trade-in so i want the car to be in the best condition it can so i can get the most money. I was wondering what the easiest way to fix the holes right now would be and any measures i can take to prevent the rust from occuring again. I live in New England so we are prone to rust. Thanks for any help or advice.

-Scott

Reply to
enginerd477
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I'm sorry that I do not have any good advice to offer you because I am no expert on body work, but you have aroused my curiosity about a couple of things. So, if you don't mind, I actually have a couple of questions that you could maybe answer for me.

You said the car won't pass inspection because of the rust holes. I am curious about which State has that sort of inspection. I live down in South Louisiana and never heard of anything like that. You should see some of the rusty junkers on the road down here. Is that sort of thing a common problem for getting cars inspected up North or is it just in that certain State? What other sort of cosmetic things would fail? For instance, does all the chrome have to be in good shape or does it matter if the body paint is peeling off? What if the windshield is cracked? What about emissions and mechanical condition, are they rough on those things also when it comes time for inspection?

I like to keep abreast of automotive related things and It would be nice to know more about what other States require for inspections.

It sounds like you already know as much about fixing rust as I do, but I have heard that once a door panel or rocker panel starts rusting through, there is not much that can be done to stop it other than cutting away and replacing all of the rusted area. I suppose that would require a professional body shop to have it fixed permanently.

Good luck,

Reply to
Kevin

"enginerd477" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

Your parents had nothing to do with it. That rust usually comes from the INSIDE OUT. And if they were stone chips causing *exterior* rust, they came back because you did not use zinc primer when fixing the last rust you had.

In either case, perforation takes far, far longer than a couple of school years. This perforation is a result of long-term neglect, and likely started well before you bought the car. It takes about five years for a stone chip to rust through, and also about that long for internal rust to hole the steel.

Your description, though, makes me suspect internal rust.

If the rust has resulted in perforation, you are out of luck. It is now terminal and all you can do is keep covering it up with sheet aluminum and screws. If you are lucky and it hasn't spread far, you may be able to cut away all the rusty metal, paint inside and out with zinc primer, cover with undercoat and sheet aluminum, and you may be OK for a few years.

Sheet aluminum screwed or riveted to the body may enable you to pass inspection. Hopefully your state is not so anal as to require welding.

Those residing in the eastern Canadian provinces are blessed with the presence of the Rust Check and Krown chains, which provide the very best rust preventative treatment the world has ever seen.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

enginerd477 wrote:

The rust started before they drove the car But that isn't the problem. First thing to do is decide what type of repair you want to do. You can do a quick repair or a GOOD repair. Your choice.

For a reasonable repair, buy a fiberglass repair kit that has resin and matting, and a small can of Bondo. Pull the rocker trim panels inside, then clean the areas inside and out with a wax and grease remover. Use a flap disc to remove the rust and bad paint from inside and outside the panel. Make sure you get ALL the rust. Now use some PrepSol or other rust neutralizer and wipe the bare metal and let it dry. (This is not Extend or that type product, it is basically phosphoric acid) Cut a couple pieces of the matting so it covers the hole and about 1" around it. Mix up some resin and saturate the one piece of matting. Now put that on the inside of the panel, push it down good to get any air out. Do the same with the second piece. Now work on the other side while it cures. Once it cures you can cut two more pieces that just fit in the holes themselves. Put resin on them and put them into the holes so that they almost level the holes with the face of the panel, add a little resin to make sure that there are no gaps. Let that cure. Now mix up a small amount of bondo and put a THIN layer over the hole from outside. Do the same on the other side, then come back and add another THIN layer. Once you have added the two layers let it harden. Make sure you get the tools and any excess cleaned up before it sets. Once it sets up good start sanding with a SOLID sanding block, no rubber blocks or fingers. Get it sanded so that a straightedge laid over the repair sets nice and flat and level with the untouched panel. Sand to about 320 grit and spray on a coat of primer. Look for pinholes or low spots. If you find any mix a small amount of bondo and put it in those spots. If you don't find any your doing good. Wipe the area with a tack cloth then put on another thin coat, sand that and spray on the color coat. If you get the color on nice the first time get the clear coat ready so it can be sprayed as soon as the base coat dries a bit. Shoot on the clear. Let it harden for at least a week before you put wax or anything else on it. On the inside you can buy some good undercoat in a can and coat all the inner side of the panel you can get to. That will also cut road noise as well as slow the rust.

For a good repair you do many of the above steps EXCEPT you don't use fiberglass to fill the hole, you would cut out a larger area and MIG or TIG in new steel. Grind it smooth and put a thin coat of filler on it. Then sand and paint as above.

Which state in New England will fail a car for minor rust? N.Y., Mass, Maine, Conn. sure won't.

Reply to
Steve W.

A 99 with rust already? Yikes. I find this interesting because I'm in the market for a sedan and I've looked at a couple of 01-03 GTP's and found rust spots on them as well. The wife's 90 Beretta is now only starting to get rust around the wheelwells, so I'm shocked to find rust on a car less than 10 years old. Although it's still a zillion percent better than any car from the 70's, of which I've owned a few.

Ray (wondering if all Grand Prixs of that vintage have rust issues...)

Reply to
ray

Thanks to all for your help.

I wasn't saying my parents caused the rust this winter, thanks for clarifying things for me though about the life of rust. But since you said it takes about 5 years to occur it did start with them because the car was my dad's business car directly from the manufacturer and then i bought it off him when his lease was up. So now I can tell him it was his fault, thanks for the info. But back to business.

I live in New Hampshire and go to school in New York. To be honest the rust holes are only dime-sized, and I'm sure it would pass inspection but i also have my doubt because I don't know all the regulations about this stuff, I'd rather be safe than sorry. We have our share of rust buckets as well, which i don't knwo how they are still intact. I also wanted the help because i plan to sell the car and want it to look the best it could. when i do.

Steve W, thanks for the help, I was wondering how you take the rocker panels off. Is it as simple as just pulling them off or do you think that they are bolted on somewhere, because I've been looking to find out how to do that because it's alot easier to work on them when they are off the car than on, and i also wanted to see what other damage i might have from rust.

I was wondering if it would be a good idea of instead of painting the spot over i cover the area with an undercoating instead, like the ruberized base stuff, because the holes are on the underside of the car, non visible and thats where all of my rust is, for the most part, or would it be better if i were to just coat the inside of the panel and paint the outside.

Thanks again for all your help, and take care.

Reply to
enginerd477

Do you know if this Rust Check and Krown chains are available in the USA or are they shop in Canada? Do you have any idea what they use for rust prevention.

Thanks for the help.

Reply to
enginerd477

What's a rocker panel??

What type of inspection are you in reference to?

Reply to
Daryl Bryant

Daryl,

I'm pretty sure they call it a rocker panel but I may be wrong. right under the door there is a piece of molding that runs along the bottom of the door which wraps underneath the car. That is what i call a rocker panel. that may not be the right name for it but thats what i have been told it is for a while, or ever since i've owned the car and had to fix the rust.

I am referencing the yearly inspection for my car.

Reply to
enginerd477

You are removing the trim on the inside not the panel itself. You don't want to get the trim panels messed up since they are not cheap to replace. Since they are such small holes in the rockers and those wrap under real well you could repair them just from the outside and then once repaired shoot the entire rocker panel with chip guard spray. (that is basically the same stuff as truck bed liner). Grind the rust off on the outside and make a rod to reach inside the holes and remove the as much rust as possible. Then spray some rust neutralizer in there and try to coat as much as possible. Let that dry and patch the holes. Shoot the repair with primer and paint. Then use some rocker guard on.

The primary thing that you have to do is remove the rust. If you leave ANY behind it will just come back under the repair.

Reply to
Steve W.

Go look at new vehicles on the lot. I have seen rust spots on '06 vehicles.

Reply to
Steve W.

"enginerd477" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

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The stuff is thin and drippy. Makes quite a mess, but works better than anything else on the market. Needs to be reapplied every year.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Metal foil duct tape- Spray paint- Inspection, $15.

Rust holes in NY are on the inspection list in case there is a structural issue, or in case exhaust gas entry is allowed.

It would likely pass with a fair-sized hole in the rocker.

CT on the other hand...

Dave (former NYS veeehicle inspector)

Reply to
spamTHISbrp

The British call them sills. They are the panels below the doors.

In Britain, if they are rusted out, you have to cut them out and weld in new metal. AFAIK, most of them are decorative, but I have seen some that lend structural integrity to the chassis, I suppose.

Here in the USA, most people would laugh at you if you got too concerned about rocker panel rust.

Reply to
<HLS

The thing is that on many unibody vehicles that IS a structural part. Ask Chrysler about rocker flex with the first generation mini vans.

Reply to
Steve W.

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