Trader4 was right?? gensets vs. car inverters.....

Holy shit, I think he was.... but for the wrong reasons, of course. He was bitching about tripping over extension cords and fires or some other dumb shit (regarding car inverters), whereas the problems are really more fundamental.

So this protracted wrangling of mine, over car/battery inverters vs. trad'l gensets, has been solved: I ordered BOTH.... LOL But the "real working solution" seems to be a genset, in this case a tri-fuel.

The inverter thing *could* work, but from other recent threads, it seems that this strat just turns into a bear. I did order two inverters (1500 and 2500 W cobras) to experiment with, but not nec. for house power -- altho when I set it up, I'll screw around with that as well.

What I finally did was order one of these:

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and one of these:
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so's I can run the unit inside. The unit I ordered is actually a tri-fuel, but it has no gas tank, but can siphon from any container, which is pretty neat.

The total bill is $3K, MUCH more than I wanted to spend (PLUS my stolen $1K BlackMax -- goodgawd), but bottom line, this Sandy thing just spooked me big time, PLUS this being the 3rd major weather event around here in 1.5 years. I've lucked out in all three, but that's all it was, luck.

Now, this unit may not be for everyone, and here are some of the pro's/con's.

Like virtually all "affordable" units, this thing will sound like a goddamm lawnmower -- don't listen to those bullshit decibel claims. A true automotive muffler might help (either replacing the original, or placed in series with the existing) can help a bit, but a sound-proofed enclosure box is a better (albeit more troublesome) solution. If you want an intrinsically quiiet unit, quiet will double, triple the price at a given wattage, eg, the Honda EU series. Or buy an Onan.... lol But actually, you can find them on craig's list, rel. cheap. Just have yer fork lift ready..... . The above unit is a very compact unit, with no wheels, but then that's why God invented dolly's. Not that heavy for the wattage, about 240#.

You can make it fully automatic, like the Generac standby's, but to me that's just pita complexity, UNLESS it's for a second home or sumpn. Btw, you can get a 8 kW Generac (7 kW continuous, then de-rated for nat gas) for considerably cheaper ($1800-2000), but at half the watts of my unit. And the generac is a fairly big box (almost like a small storage shed, you can see them at HD), vs. the above unit, which is like a large suitcase. And generac reliability seems to be iffy. The above unit is Honder-powered.

Tri-fuel, imo, is Da Bomb, makes the unit very versatile, I can throw it on m'truck anytime, for whatever -- not for camping, tho, too noisy, unless you build a really good box. Car inverters would proly be better for camping, it would seem. But for long outages, natural gas is *by far* the best way to go, followed by propane, then gasoline.

15 kW is proly more than most people need, but I have sizable sq ft and a shop, so I figgered I might as well just take the plunge.

Vic Smith is very right about the cost/benefit/probability considerations, and no doubt I "overpaid" in this regard, but I really got spooked this time, and the utilities are telling people, flat out, they're not getting power 'til Nov 15...... at best. Holy shit.... Dat easily coulda been me. My rich f*****ad neighbors (bunches of them) were without power for a full week. The MAYOR is without power, in a city of 200,000++ ... !!!! I believe that like the Halloween snow storm, some people will be without power for a month.

So, I overpaid, probability-wise, but at least now I can sleep, and if shit happens, at least I'll be able to keep the shop going.. AND I got those inverters coming.... lol

Sam's club BlackMax (8750 peak, 7500 continuous) is a good unit, and the above site sells them, in both gasoline AND tri-fuel models. The BlackMax at Sam's is $1K, the tri-fuel from the above site is about $1500. You could modify the blackmax yourself with tri-fuel kits ($150-200, many sites, incl the above), but if I had it to do over, I'da ordered the tri-fuel version, pay the difference for peace of mind, no futzing around.

Before the blackmax walked, I tested it fairly extensively, with CNC machining equip, pyooters, compressors, you name it, wow, what a stable workhorse, very impressive. The only thing that made it really hiccup was starting a 5 hp rpc., whose hiccup I think I could have reduced by starting a 2 hp rpc first. But overall impressive.

So for half of what I paid, most people would do very very well with that modified blackmax (with the wheels, etc). Noisy tho, and doesn't have an "automotive type" muffler, like the one I just ordered, which means it will be more difficult to put another muffler on, but not super-difficult, just a pita. You would not, without some kind of custom adatper, be able to install that flex hose above, whereas on the unit I ordered, it (theoretically) clamps right on the muffler flange.

I believe the car inverter strat is workable, but the Q is how workable, AND at what risk to the car, alternator. After much flipflopping, I just decided to bite the $3K bullet. Oh, and another thing, in a real shit scenario like what we have now -- no power AND no gasoline!!! -- the car inverter fails as well, another consideration.

If you have a nat gas generator, AND an electric car, yer pretty much set. I was seriously contemplating trading in one vehicle for a Chevy Volt, but just too much dough, AND an interim solution is real simple: Just store oodles of gas. None of these electrics pay for themselves, vs. the economy gas equiv. The new Pruis C proly does tho, if you get the base model, $18k, 50+ mpg.... one forum was talking about 65 mpg.... which gives it, like, an 800 mile range!! Holy shit....

So, inyway, just the wranglings of another struggling home-moaner, taking it in the ass, along with the (w)hole of working Merka..... which of course will get lots worse, regardless of who wins today. I believe, tho, that Romney actually ENJOYS f****ng the working class (since he made a career out of it at Bain), while Obama just accepts a f***ed working class as "collateral damage". Still, we're f***ed either way.

Reply to
Existential Angst
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that is the best answer.

you run the inverter with a car battery when you need a small amount of power for the TV or the modem for your laptop etc...

and you run the genny when its time to cool down the fridge or run the furnace or microwave etc. and charge up the car battery for the inverter.

you don't want to run the genny all night if you don't have to.

Mark

Reply to
Mark

that is the best answer. ===========================================

Indeed, when in doubt, waffling and/or the shotgun approach work, almost by definition. The shotgun solution can be a little 'spensive, tho. When I'm done (assuming I keep both inverters), all this will have cost *over* $4,000.... and that's with me doing all the installs.... Farming out all the installation work, you could *easily* double that.... goodgawd....

But you can "get by" with a 4,000 W tri-fuel (Honder powered), for under $1,000 from that same company, if you do the installation yourself. And if you take some chances on quality, proly half that. Of course, a plain ole budget gasoline generator can be had for half that again, a cupla hundred -- which is almost not worth it imo, but apparently a lot of people think otherwise, judging from the long lines of people with 1 gal gas cans....

you run the inverter with a car battery when you need a small amount of power for the TV or the modem for your laptop etc...

and you run the genny when its time to cool down the fridge or run the furnace or microwave etc. and charge up the car battery for the inverter.

you don't want to run the genny all night if you don't have to. =======================================================

Yeah, those were my thoughts as well, IF car inverter power is adequate even for that -- AND safe for the car/alternator. The inverters arrived last nite (1500, 2500 W), I'll be getting a Sears marine battery today hopefully, and start tryna put this together, on m'truck, then on the other car, see what happens. This inverter strat serves a variety of other purposes besides outage backup power, so this is not do or die.

Too bad, cuz with a little thought from a car maker, a really practical solution could be had, alternator/inverter-wise. But not for weeks at a time, like what some people endure with these widespread outages.

Reply to
Existential Angst

LOL. Lots of crabby old farts this morning. They still haven't figured out they might be dead before Obama leaves office. And that if Romney was in, they still might be dead. And it wouldn't make a dimes worth of difference in how dead they are. Better to just have a beer and set up the generator or inverter.

Reply to
Vic Smith

maybe I missed something but if you are buying the genset why bother with the car part at all? Why not just buy a couple deep cycle batteries and use the genset to charge them? Surely that would use less gas then running the car? The savings on gas would pay for the batteries. Charge the batteries during the high power genset use time and then use the batteries when you only need small around of power.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

I'm picking up a deep cycle from Autozone in about an hour. The inverter will operate off that, and I will hook up a switch to let the car alternator charge that batt when driving, disconnect when using the inverter, sparing the car batt. I'll experiment with this as backup power, but mostly it will be used for

120V in the truck. Also, I'll have a spare batt for the truck! :)
Reply to
Existential Angst

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You never pay attention do you?

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

Almost certainly fabricated right-wing nonsense:

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Reply to
Gene

You're undeniably, pathologically delusional. Or stated in a mythological (as is your stock-in-trade) manner that you might more easily relate to - as Arthur (Graham Chapman), King of the Britons bid farewll to the Black Knight: "You're a loony! Come on Patsy (Terry Gilliam)".

Reply to
Gene

Delusional Dood:

YOU went from "first college course" to "first EE course" (which isn't usually referred to as "college"), and THEN you went to "first VIDEO EE course".....

I posted two sample EE curriculums from name-brand universities, with none of what you mention anywhere near a "first course".... just WHO is delusional??

PLUS.... and this is the biggie.... You STILL can't show how Thevenin has ANYTHING to do with a diy-er discussion of batteries/inverters.... ANYTHING......

Cuz, well, you just had to name drop..... and "curriculum drop".... and yer fullashit on both counts.

Dude, I don't pretend to really understand Thevenin.... I mean, I passed the course, but fuuuck, so did a lot of other morons. BUT, I know enough to know when some asshole is flapping his 3" dick in front of a slide projector, pretending it's 18", when all's it is is a shadow of a 3" dick.....

Keep flapping, you delusional f*ck, keep flapping, with your ersatz literary """style""".... what a fukn sham....

Reply to
Existential Angst

Politics? Dood..evidently you dont understand symptoms of mental illness.

Of course you dont. You are one of those poor sad sickos.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

As far as I can tell, full grown adults standing in a 100,000 capacity stadium, cheering some jerkoff rock'n'roll band OR some jerkoff sports team, or even just discussing professional sports, is the benchmark of mental illness. On par with religious fervor.

Rossiter should examine celebrity worship, religion, et al if he wants mental illness. I suspect he'd lighten up right away on libs. Seems like he has a bug up his professional ass. Figgers you'd cite some professional with an agenda.

well, not as poor as you, not by a longshot

well, pretty demoralized, living in this bankrupt junk culture...

My stability has been called into question. But in this reality, instability is a pretty natural/normal response to social insanity.. Sorta like your PTSD, or whatever happened to you after you were discharged. Mebbe you'n'me should get audited by a reputable Scientologist, eh?? LOL

Reply to
Existential Angst

I agree. It's absolute rubbish:

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This author reached out to Mr. Carville's office about the blistering quote and received the following response:

Mr. Becker,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Apparently the quote was falsely posted by an unknown user to a quotations website called thinkexist.com. We have contacted the website and asked them to take the quote down. James Carville never said these words, and this quote in no way belongs to James Carville.

Liar, liar pants on fire. (-: What I find remarkable is that Americans are finally catching on to how much of the information being cited as gospel by the right turns out to be utter BS and punished them at the polls for their mendacity.

Reply to
Robert Green

Your Denial and Transference is noted with much sadness.

As you say...full grown adults..mentally ill.....

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Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

Looks like Carvelle is running from an off hand remark thats catching up to him.

And its not Bush's fault either!!

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

What..you didnt like stadiums filled with Leftwingers cheering on their home team to be appropriate?

Just goes to show how mentally twisted you really are.

Shrug

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

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And the hilariously ironic aspect is that the fact check, by

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originates from a political conservative site; their own kind are characterizing the quote as fraudulent.

Reply to
Gene

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Heh, you on fraud: the pot calling the kettle black.

Reply to
Existential Angst

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Yes, you undeniably are, and being moronic adds an even worse element.

As with paranoia, jealously obviously runs quite deep.

Reply to
Gene

Heh! I saw a TV anchor discuss "What makes you such an expert on economics? You'd think you had a degree in it or something!"

His response: "I do. Two degrees. With highest honors. You?"

"(silence)"

I recall a poster "What the f*ck does a TV commentator know about economics or the mental process to lead some, according to him, to a flawed reasoning?"

Of course I had to throw in: McGill University, BA Economics, Summa cum Laude Balliol College, Oxford, Commonwealth Scholar in Politics Harvard Medical School Residency in Psychiatry, Massachusetts General Hospital Board Certified in Psychiatry by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology

Reply to
HeyBub

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