Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

My Sister just sold an 11 year old Civic - despite the silly KBB claims, she was only able to get $2500. The body was good, except for paint flaking off the bumpers. Ran fine, but it was a rolling POS as far as I was concerned. I was surprised anybody would give her $2500 for it. If she gave it to me, I would have gotten rid of it as soon as possible. Two doors down a nice older lady has a ten year old Corolla. It has only about 45k miles on it, but it is a POS as well. I drove it around for her when she had a problem with the headlights (not really a problem with the car - operator error). Personally I wouldn't want to drive it to the store for a loaf of bread. Noisy, uncomfortable, slow...everything I don't want in a car. But I guess some people are willing to but up with almost anything.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White
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This is true, but the way Toyota does battery discharging, the _usable_ capacity will be about the same. They don't take full advantage of the battery, especially on the U.S. models (in other countries there's an option to do deeper discharge). All they have to do to get ten years of identical capacity is to slowly increase the discharge level to compensate.

Reply to
SMS

Maybe on some vehicles. I know a lot of high-mileage Corollas (>200K) and it's certainly not normal to need a new transmission, at least no one I know of with a high-mileage Corolla (or Camry, or Accord, or Civic) has ever needed one.

Where did you get the idea that it was "normal?".

Reply to
SMS

The newer automatics are so efficient that they often get higher mileage than a manual transmission in the same car. No one that drive extensively in heavy stop and go traffic is going to put up with a manual transmission.

Reply to
SMS

I don't think so. Can you explain that?

Clay

Reply to
frijoli

Re: Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds Group: alt.autos.toyota Date: Tue, May 13, 2008, 5:53am From: snipped-for-privacy@nastydesigns.com (Elmo=A0P.=A0Shagnasty)

Cost of battery pack when it needs replacing? Is no different than the cost of the traditional automatic transmission when it needs replacing. And after 125K, a traditional auto trans will need replacing. It seems to be normal nowadays.

------------------

So, by your logic, your prius will need a battery pack replacement ($4000 plus labor is the cost to replace them... I don't see how that compares to a transmission job) AND a new transmission. Or maybe the super gilded prius you all are always advocating has NO transmission.

As was stated, the corrolla can be discounted ..good luck getting a prius below msrp.

And NOW we're comparing prius to corolla?? Just a short while ago you all were whining about how they aren't compareable.. What happened to that.. finally did YOUR homework..?

140k on my camry and no need for a new transmission.. so there goes that theory.. Anymore ideas on how to justify buying a prius (other than the cache')...Love to hear them.. they make me laugh..
Reply to
Charles Pisano

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, among other sites, indicates the 2008 Corolla is available with either a manual 5-speed (five forward gears) tranny or an automatic, 4-speed (four forward gears) tranny. Generally for diverse driving (e.g. some kind of cross between city and highway driving), the more gears, the better the odds the engine has of running at optimal fuel efficiency.

Though I probably should have qualified this somewhat. For one, with other makes, there are some automatic four-speed trannies with variable yada that can do as well as or better than manual five-speeds.

The bigger point to me is that it's worth checking the MPG for both the auto and manual versions of a particular model and year before just assuming the manual tranny will do better than the auto.

Lastly, as others are saying and MPG aside, I think manual transmissions tend to be cheaper to maintain and are less prone to breakdown.

Reply to
Elle

Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds Group: alt.autos.toyota Date: Mon, May 12, 2008, 12:16pm (EDT-1) From: snipped-for-privacy@null.void (RPS) Our old Camry is showing its age (~12 years) and we have decided to look for a new car but budget down to "Corolla level". I said "level" as I am open to competing models from Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, etc. I would appreciate your help in choosing the model, as well as the "sub-model" (CE, LE, DX etc.). Most of our driving is city or regional: round trips to places 10-50 miles away. A few times a year we drive 300-500 miles trips. I would like basic safety features (line anti-lock brakes) and comforts (4-door, AC). Very high priority running cost (mpg, reliability). I can live with manual or automatic. I would consider new, or low-mileage dealer demos etc, but not "really used". (Like everyone else, I thought about Prius but it looks too expensive.) A few questions:

  1. Which make/model would be the best fit?
  2. What is the best site for reading up on these and well as comparison reviews? (Bought my last car 12 years ago and online resources must have come along since then.)
  3. Would you go to a local dealer or Carmax, Carsdirect etc?
  4. At this point would you buy a 2009, or 2008?
  5. When is the best time of the year to get good deals on last years models, dealer demos, loaners and like? (These I'd imagine are only available from dealers.) Thanks for all help. ================= Edmunds is the best site for vehicle research..

Christmas is a good time to buy as is the end of a model run. I purchased my 01 camry in April of 01 after they announced what the redesign would entail. I didn't like 02's and got a great deal on my 01.

This year I went through the current market in trying to decide weather to keep my 8 year old camry or buy a new car. I did a 24 hour test drive on a couple of vehicles and the 2009 corrolla was one of them.

I tried mazda, subaru, hyundai and nissan. I decided a 2009 corrolla S would be the best value considering fuel economy and available options and reliability.

But I decided to keep my Camry another several years given the quality drop off of newer cars across the board.

Corrolla S actually delivers the same fuel economy as the yaris and XA...So, it doesn't make sense to buy a smaller car in those comparisons unless you want to look 'trendy' like the prius owners..

The prius was never a consideration for me. And after very little research, I found that to be a good instinct since it has (on top of the battery issues) safety issues, such as the brakes wont work if it doesn't power up. Or it wont come out of park if it wont power up..

Tow truck drivers just love prius'.

Reply to
Charles Pisano

Actually, an automatic transmission can easily go 200K miles with no repairs or maintenance other than perhaps one change of fluid. 200K miles of city driving on a manual will require at least one clutch change. For highway driving, you could go longer on a clutch.

Reply to
SMS

Actually, you're speaking in possibilities and outliers. I am talking about averages. I can say that, anecdotally, reports of serious problems with auto transmissions are much more common in this newsgroup than reports of serious problems with manual trannies. Fact is the engineering of an auto tranny is far more complicated than that of a manual. This of course translates to a greater propensity for problems.

I would not generalize like this. Clutch wear depends on shifting style as well as stops and starts. I do not do all city driving but it's been almost all suburban driving, with some city and highway. My 91 Civic is on 204k miles on its original clutch.

Reply to
Elle

A good analysis, but real world consumption figures show the Prius lower than the EPA rating, much lower in cold winter weather. On the up side for the Prius here in Canada there are Gov. rebates for low consumption vehicles, which drop the price of the Prius significantly, the Camry hybrid quite a bit and even the Corolla slightly.

Reply to
Josh S

No.

The Prius does not use any form of the standard hydraulic automatic transmission we've all come to know and love. Nor does it use the belt-driven CVT.

The Prius transmits power from the motors/engine to the wheels using a system unique to the Prius. It's what allows the Prius to manage energy so carefully. In building such a unit, Toyota built a unit that is FAR simpler than anything else on the road and which, as a practical matter, will cause no grief. ESPECIALLY when compared to a traditional hydraulic automatic transmission.

I don't expect you to believe or even understand this concept, but it's there for anyone who cares to see.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

LOL, it actually was Elmo one talking about outliers, claiming that 125K miles to be the norm for an automatic transmission. Maybe it's the norm for Ford or Chevy (actually I don't believe that either), but definitely for Toyota and Honda.

A Canadian study on longevity (11-20 year old cars) showed the following as the five non-luxury vehicle brands with the highest percentage of vehicles (based on number originally sold):

Saturn Toyota Honda Mazda Volkswagen

Of course you don't know how much was spent to keep these going that long, how much oil the engines consumed, or how much was spent on repairs in years 1-10, but there's no reason to believe that these owners were willing to spend more on repairs than owners of more poorly ranked vehicles.

Reply to
SMS

I was not aware that they were in common production for those cars. Are you quite certain? Most of the Civics I'm aware of had automatics or standards.

In any event, not all manufacturers have a lot of experience with them. If you want to jump on board with a manufacturer's early ventures into a technology, be my guest. Experience has shown that to be less than advisable.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Pisano" Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: Re: Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

Re: Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

Group: alt.autos.toyota Date: Tue, May 13, 2008, 5:53am From: snipped-for-privacy@nastydesigns.com (Elmo P. Shagnasty)

What kind of cars do you drive? I've owned several Fords well past

125k miles with no transmission problems. My SO lost the transmission in her Grand Voyager at around 200k miles, but that happened after she let Jiffy Lube service the transmission. We are suspicious that Jiffy Lube did not properly refill the transmission, leading to the failure. Impossible to prove unfortunately. My Sister lost a manual transmission in a 1986 Jetta with 135k miles, but then that is a VW. The SO's old Camry had significant leakage problems with the transmission at 200K miles, but the car was still moving (as long as you kept pouring in fluid). She only got rid of the car when the leaks were so bad it was killing off the yard.

I know two people close to me that own Prius's (what is the plural of that - Pris???). They are both very happy with the cars. I actually find the interior to have good head and leg room, but they are uncomfortably narrow - at least with a couple of 6'2", 250 lb people in the front. The luggage room is a fiction. Oddly shaped space. If you use it, you can't see anything out the rear (and even empty, the rear view is not good). My SO wishes she had bought one last year instead of a RAV4. I wish I had bought a Jetta diesel myself. I wish someone would sell a diesel pickup the size of a Tacoma or Frontier in the US.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

lots of discussion here, my additions: at this point, it's clear that side airbags are a significant addition to safety, i'd tend to make them a must. diseases of japanese cars, toyota and honda included, tend to be more age related than mileage related. as such, "easiest" way to own them might be to buy new or maybe one year old, then sell around the time of the "big service" where you have to change the timing belt. repeat as necessary. as pointed out, the depreciation on toyota or honda is pretty low, so a good deal on a new one is as cheap as a bad deal on a one year old. either way, it'll depreciate less while you own it than other makes, so a little more expense up front ends up saving you over the long run. if you are more into keep it until it rusts away, as with the 12 year old Camry, that's obviously less of an issue. in which case, you might want to consider a hyundai along with focus, mazda, nissan, because the cost of entry is less for them. hyundai quality has come a long way lately.

Reply to
z

"lots of discussion here, my additions: at this point, it's clear that side airbags are a significant addition to safety, i'd tend to make them a must. diseases of japanese cars, toyota and honda included, tend to be more age related than mileage related. as such, "easiest" way to own them might be to buy new or maybe one year old, then sell around the time of the "big service" where you have to change the timing belt. repeat as necessary. as pointed out, the depreciation on toyota or honda is pretty low, so a good deal on a new one is as cheap as a bad deal on a one year old. either way,....."

------------------- Corollas, camrys and (for example) sonatas have all gone to timing chains. That aside, it wasn't a BIG expense when they did have belts. At

140k miles (camry) the biggest expense I've had was replacing my struts (800 incl. alignment).

Now if we were talking about GM, I'd say trade it every 36k miles to be safe.

Reply to
Charles Pisano

But is bigger better? That extra 4 cubic feet of passenger space does little if it is not in the hip room when you want it. Of if the trunk space is more in volume but the trunk lid is too small to fit a decent sized carton through it. .

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

That's a good point. I find the Corolla to have much more usable room. It's a lot more cramped than a Corolla. You can carry five people in a Corolla and not be too uncomfortable, but not in a Prius which is really good for only two adults and two children. Still, if you're using the Prius as a commute vehicle, and have a larger family vehicle for trips with more people, it's fine.

Reply to
SMS

Well, that gives the nod to Honda--with its Safety for Everyone campaign, where every car gets every safety feature that was available at the time the car was introduced. Where the manufacturer does not put more safety features into the higher end cars and fewer into the lower end cars.

(There's a big discussion about run-flat tires on the Odyssey, though; for years, many argued them as a safety feature, but since Honda has since made them optional and not mandatory, I think that shows the lie that people told themselves about it being a safety feature.)

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

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