Is my oxygen sensor bad? 1985 corolla, 4A-C engine, 2BBL carb, federal

My 1985 corolla with 4A-c engine, federal emissions, 2 barrel carburetor is running very rich, even at idle. I'm almost certain it's a carburetetor problem, but I'm not positive. Does anyone know at what engine speed the oxygen sensor feedback system (that leans the mixture as needed) starts to work? I'm guessing it doesn't affect the idle and low rpm mixture. I followed the instructions by putting an analog meter on the two terminals for the oxygen sensor (diagnostic socket by winshield wiper motor) I'm getting a stead voltage around 4 volts, but it doesn't seem to vary. I unplugged the sensor and the voltage went away, so I know I'm measuring the right circuit. Is this oxygen sensor bad? If so, do you recommend I replace it with an aftermarket part?

Ladies and gentlemen, thanks in advance for the suggestions!

-Mark Lum

-----------------------------------------------------------

Posted using QuadSucker/News,
formatting link
... the ultimate tool for newsgroup downloading!-----------------------------------------------------------
Reply to
pretty
Loading thread data ...

Reply to
user

Reply to
Ray O

When you check oxygen sensor voltage, it should be at around 1,500 to 2,000 RPM. At that engine speed, you should get fluctuating voltage. If voltage is steady or non-existent, the O2 sensor is probably bad. I tend to recommend OEM parts because I have not had problems with OEM parts. If you decide to go aftermarket, look for one with the factory connector so you do not have to splice wires.

A bad O2 sensor is not likely to cause an excessively rich condition in a carbureted engine. Check the float in the bowl and follow Ph@Boy's advice.

Reply to
Ray O

The forums at

formatting link
should have all the answers.

Toyota manual says the feedback system is active between 1,600 - 4,100 RPM, when the coolant temperature is above 17C / 63F, throttle position switch is on, and the vacuum switch is off (i.e., vacuum is below 3.35" / 85mm). But even if the feedback system doesn't work right it shouldn't cause much trouble because all it does is lean out the mixture slightly at times, not enrichen it the way many feedback systems do.

The factory manual says to hold the engine at 2,500 RPM for 90 seconds, and while maintaining this speed, measure the voltage at the E (brown) and Ox (black-white) terminals of the socket. It should fluctuate between 0 - 7V at least 8 times within 10 seconds.

The feedback system won't work if the throttle position switch never opens and closes. It's supposed to close when the speed in neutral or park reaches 1,800 RPM, and this is adjusted by disconnecting the switch from the computer and measuring the switch's resistance while slowly raising the RPM in neutral or park until there's continuity. The adjustment screw is at the end of the throttle positioner linkage. There are two screws there, and the one farthest from the throttle positioner is the one you want to adjust. The throttle has to be opened only a tiny amount to trigger the switch, and with the throttle closed there should be less than 1/16" clearance between the adjustment and switch.

Is it possible that SeaFoam caused varnish in the fuel tank to dissolve and clog the fuel filter or carb?

The power valve opens an extra metering jet to let in more fuel when when the the gas pedal is floored and the manifold vacuum is low. I don't know if a leaking secondary fuel cut solenoid valve can also cause a rich idle (wouldn't the closed secondary throttle plate prevent much fuel from being sucked into the engine?).

The only brands of carburetor rebuild kits I've used are Tomco and CarQuest/Standard, and some of their parts seemed inferior to the factory ones:

  1. coil springs had far fewer turns.

  1. Tomco's fuel cut solenoid o-rings turned rock hard in a few years, and one broke off and lodged in the brass body of the float valve, which had large slots instead of small holes that would have prevented this.

  2. Standard's accelerator pump shaft rubber bellows became brittle and cracked in about ten months, allowing gas to evaporate out the carb. CarQuest gave me a whole new rebuild kit, and I apply grease to this bellows to prevent rot (can't use silicone spray).

  1. Neither aftermarket float valve had a filter screen to block debris, and this allowed a piece of old fuel hose that had shed off to lodge and hold the valve open.

OTOH the directions and gaskets were fine (actually corrected a mistake in the factory manual, where the two fuel cut solenoids were mixed up), the o-rings for the venturi body didn't deteriorate noticeably, and the auxillary accelerator pump diaphram was as good as the factory original's .

If the heater and choke wires aren't installed exactly as original, including their clip holders and the choke linkage cover, the linkage can bind.

My lengthy reply is no indication that I know what I'm talking about. ;)

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Thanks for the help, Larry, Moe 'n'Curly!

My 85 has two fuel solenoids (which do click when I apply voltage) and my throttle positioner has only 1 vacuum hose and I don't see any throttle switch (where would it be?) The OEM factory manual I bought (on your excellent advice, I do believe) is actually for an 83 (I couldn't find an

85 manual for sale), and there are differences from 83 to 85, but the throttle positioner seems to be the same. There is only one screw that I recall (the car isn't near me now), one vacuum hose and one diaphram that I can see on the throttle positioner. I haven't adjusted that yet, since I want to solve one problem at a time. The Ox sensor testing procedure in the 83 manual is the same that you listed, but it doesn't say anything about a throttle switch. What year is yours and where's this switch?

Also, you talked about the rubber accelerator pump bellow rotting and you said not to use silicone on it. Why not??

The specific carb info you shared is priceless. I'm going to buy a factory needle valve, no matter what, based on your experience. The advice on routing the wires carefully to avoid binding the factory linkages has been duely noted. I'll take some digital pictures before disassemby, noting the routing.

You said, "My legthy reply is no indication that I know what I'm talking about." Well, you've got me fooled. Thanks agin!

-Mark Lum

Reply to
Mark Lum

Thank you Ray, for responding to my problem with running too rich.

Because I don't understand the circuit, can you post a link where I can learn more what you mean by "closed loop"?

I tested around 2500 RPM on the dash tach and got a steady voltage.

I tend to

What is wrong with splicing Oxygen sensor wires or extending them? I've recently done with crimp butt connectors and about 8" of wire when I replaced an oxygen sensor on a family members fuel injected Chevy (Replaced just as preventative measure, the sensor was only $20)

There is no fuel visible in sight glass when engine is off, and it is in the middle of the sight glass when idling. Do you think there could still be a float problem?

Thanks again!

-Mark Lum

Reply to
Mark Lum

The O2 sensor senses O2 in the exhaust stream, and from the amount of O2 in the exhaust, the electyronic cocntrol unit (ECU) determines whether the car is running rich or lean. The O2 sensor does not provide accurate readings before it is fully warmed up or under wide open throttle (WOT) conditions, so under those conditions, the ECU ignores the signal from the O2 sensor and uses default values to control fuel delivery. This is known as "open loop" mode. The ECU uses the signal from the coolant temperature sender to determine if the engine is warmed up and from a throttle position sensor or WOT switch to determine if the throttle is fully open. If the engine is fully warmed up and the throttle is closed or partially open, the ECU goes into "closed loop" mode and will use the signal from the O2 sensor to control fuel mixture. If the mixture is rich, the ECU will lean the mixture until it is too lean, then enrichen it.

Here is a better explanation:

formatting link

There is nothing wrong with splicing O2 sensor wires or extending them if the splice is done properly. The connection is in a pretty harsh environment, subject to exhaust heat and water splashing up from underneath. A crimp connector can allow moisture into the connection and can corrode over time.

The best way to splice an aftermarket o2 sensor is to cut the connector off of the original sensor as close to the sensor as possible, slip some heat shrink tubing onto the wires, then solder the splice, and apply some O2 sensor-friendly RTV caulk over the bare wires. Once the RTV caulk has cured, use the heat shrink tubing to protect the splice. RTV caulk is pretty expensive, and it doesn't keep well so if you add in the price of the caulk, it is often cheaper and easier to buy a sensor with the correct connector.

It has been a very long time since I've looked at the schematics for a carburetor, but I believe that fuel should be visible in the sight glass when the engine is off. If the fuel is draining out, that could be the cause of the rich condition. I do not think the float is causing the fuel to drain out of the bowl.

Reply to
Ray O

Mine is a 1986 FWD, and the throttle position switch is located under the fuel bowl window. It's silver cylinder about 15mm diameter and roughly 25mm long with a hard plastic plunger at the rear about 4mm diameter and 8mm long. This plunger should be covered with a rubber bellows to keep out moisture. I've read that some other Toyotas instead use a switch with several contacts, one for each angle of the throttle.

Silicone can turn into silicon dioxide, or glass, inside the engine and seal the oxygen sensor and make it quit working.

Here are some pages from the factory manual for the 1986:

Throttle positioner adjustment procedure:

formatting link
Throttle position switch adjustment procedure:

formatting link
Diagrams of overall fuel/emissions systems:

formatting link

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Mark Lum wrote to Ray O:

If this is a matter of fuel leaking into the carb, I don't think that the problem is the float valve, provided the fuel level looks about right in the sight glass, because that valve is located high up. I'm not familiar enough with the carb to know where it can leak inside, but have you tried tightening the screws that hold the venturis in the barrel or replacing the o-rings on the fuel cut solenoids?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

-snip- \and apologises for jumping into someone else's thread...

Thanks for posting!

Hammo

>
Reply to
Hammo

Actually, do you have a clearer diagram/schematic of just the "rail" and the hoses that runs from one side of the engine to the valve (TVSV) near the thermostat?

The one I have in my manual (and the picture under the hood) don't match the carby/emission set up that is in there.

Cheers

Hammo

Reply to
Hammo

Here are some pages from the manual that show each set of hoses separately and may make it easier to sort them out:

Carburetor feedback system:

formatting link
Choke breaker system:

formatting link
Choke opener system:

formatting link
Auxillary acceleration pump:

formatting link

Here are some diagrams for other versions of the 1986 Corolla 4-door FWD:

Overall fuel/emissions systems (California):

formatting link
Overall fuel/emissions systems (Canada):

formatting link

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

On the Corolla it can. Mixture is controlled by air bleeds. The carb is set rich and air is bled in to lean the mixture.

You might try connecting to the O2 test port and watching the meter as you drive the car. If things aren't hot enough, the O2 sensor does not work.

Reply to
Kurt

---snip----- Great info snipped

---snip-----

Top work!!

Many thanks for the schematics. I'm off to play "under the hood". [1]

Cheers

Hammo

[1] No reference to Diaphragms OR Teenagers, though, does sound a tad smutty...
Reply to
Hammo

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.