Re: OT - CFL bulbs die in 6 years, not 10

Try hard Joe to focus on the message and not attack the messenger. The assertion (if accurate) is not a subjective one. Try hard. ============

You're embarrassed. That's obvious.

Seriously - you use a site whose motto is "Read Less. Know More." Can't you do better than that?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message news:P7ZZo.857$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe05.iad...

You have taken the blue sky, pastrami sandwich thing to a whole new level. You dialed in on the least significant aspect of the discussion and created an issue out of nothing.

You are dissing the FORMAT of the source because it is a Reader's Digest kind of layout? You are the one that should be embarassed.

Here is the link to the entire article from the Wall Street Journal...

And when you get tired of spending the afternoon reading that story, here are the simple steps for cleaning up after you drop a CFL on the floor...

CFL cleanup tips from EPA

Before cleanup Have people and pets leave the room, and avoid the breakage area on the way out. Open a window or door to the outdoors and leave the room for 5-10 minutes. Shut off the central forced-air heating or air conditioning system. Collect materials you will need to clean up the broken bulb: Stiff paper or cardboard, sticky tape such as duct tape, damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes, glass jar with a metal lid, such as a canning jar or a sealable plastic bag.

Cleanup steps for hard surfaces Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag.(Note: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s) from the home after cleanup.) Use sticky tape to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.Place the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag. Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wipes. Place the towels in the glass jar or plastic bag. Vacuuming of hard surfaces during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all other cleanup steps have been taken. Note: It is possible that vacuuming could spread mercury-containing powder or mercury vapor, although available information on this problem is limited.If vacuuming is needed, keep the following tips in mind: Keep a window or door to the outdoors open; Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available; and Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris, and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your area. Some states and communities require fluorescent bulbs (broken or unbroken) be taken to a local recycling center. Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing debris and cleanup materials. Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off, as practical, for several hours.

Cleanup steps for rugs Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag. Note: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s) from the home after cleanup. Use sticky tape to pick up any remaining glass fragments and powder.Place the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag. Vacuuming of carpeting or rugs during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all other cleanup steps have been taken.Note: It is possible that vacuuming could spread mercury-containing powder or mercury vapor. If vacuuming is needed, keep the following tips in mind: Keep a window or door open; Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available; and Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris, and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements. Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags. Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off for several hours.

Future cleaning of rugs Air out the room during and after vacuuming. The next several times you vacuum, shut off the H&AC system if you have one, close the doors to other rooms, and open a window or door to the outside before vacuuming.Change the vacuum bag after each use in this area. After vacuuming is completed, keep the H&AC system shut off and the window or door to the outside open for several hours.

The irony here is that the envirowhackos come home from a Save the Salmon from Mercury Exposure rallies and switch on the CFLs, not even considering they are part of the problem they just spent the afternoon protesting.

"edspyhill01" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@f2g2000vby.googlegroups.com... On Jan 20, 10:25 am, Conscience wrote:

Just drop them off at the recycling spots in Lowes and Home Depot.

Wait until you break one, then find out how to clean it up. I dn't know if this is urban legend or not, but I heard of a woman that called 911 to ask how to clean up a broken CFL, and they dispatched a haz-mat crew to her house.

CFL cleanup tips from EPA

Before cleanup Have people and pets leave the room, and avoid the breakage area on the way out. Open a window or door to the outdoors and leave the room for 5-10 minutes. Shut off the central forced-air heating or air conditioning system. Collect materials you will need to clean up the broken bulb: Stiff paper or cardboard, sticky tape such as duct tape, damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes, glass jar with a metal lid, such as a canning jar or a sealable plastic bag.

Cleanup steps for hard surfaces Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag.(Note: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s) from the home after cleanup.) Use sticky tape to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.Place the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag. Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wipes. Place the towels in the glass jar or plastic bag. Vacuuming of hard surfaces during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all other cleanup steps have been taken. Note: It is possible that vacuuming could spread mercury-containing powder or mercury vapor, although available information on this problem is limited.If vacuuming is needed, keep the following tips in mind: Keep a window or door to the outdoors open; Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available; and Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris, and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your area. Some states and communities require fluorescent bulbs (broken or unbroken) be taken to a local recycling center. Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing debris and cleanup materials. Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off, as practical, for several hours.

Cleanup steps for rugs Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag. Note: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s) from the home after cleanup. Use sticky tape to pick up any remaining glass fragments and powder.Place the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag. Vacuuming of carpeting or rugs during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all other cleanup steps have been taken.Note: It is possible that vacuuming could spread mercury-containing powder or mercury vapor. If vacuuming is needed, keep the following tips in mind: Keep a window or door open; Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available; and Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris, and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements. Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags. Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off for several hours.

Future cleaning of rugs Air out the room during and after vacuuming. The next several times you vacuum, shut off the H&AC system if you have one, close the doors to other rooms, and open a window or door to the outside before vacuuming.Change the vacuum bag after each use in this area. After vacuuming is completed, keep the H&AC system shut off and the window or door to the outside open for several hours.

More likely, they'll need replacement more often if you do that.

Stick with the better brands, including Osram, Sylvania, Panasonic, and Home Depot's. The fluorescent tube itself almost always lasts 10 years, and the real problem is with the electronic power regulator inside the plastic base, because it's made with bad parts (underrated or low-durability brand) or was rushed into production without enough testing or overview (the magnetic parts may put out bigger than normal voltage or current spikes).

I've been using CFLs for at least 20 years. I know the dangers. I handle the bulbs with special care. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

No, they don't. That is the lie they want you to believe. You cannot throw them away. If you break one, it is a hazmat event. The color spectrum is awful. And, you can cut your electric demand with dimmers on your lamps. You seldom need all 100 watts of light, and frequently don't need all 60 watts, so you can dim these lights when less light is needed but some light is desired.

A dimmable LED is a far better choice than a CFL will ever be.

But, YOU like your CFLs, and that is actually a good thing for YOU. It is probably a good thing for lots of people, and those people (like you) will go out of their way to migrate to CFLs. The government does not need to push them, people will naturally buy better stuff that comes along, and resist "better stuff" that doesn't prove itself to actually be better. CFLs fall into the latter category -- they have not proven themselves.

Ironically, California is pushing them more than anyplace else and is just now finding out that the resistance is actually well founded. Consumer acceptance is low, and it seems justifiably so. Not only is the light spectrum offensive to many consumers, there is a real environmental problem with disposal. Yes, proper disposal will mitigate the environmental issues, but people want a product they can toss in the trash, not carry back to the store. Proof of this battery disposal -- most people still throw AA and AAA batteries in the trash because they consider they are the only one doing this, and, "what's the problem with 3 small batteries in that giant landfill?" Well, we all know the problem isn't 3 small batteries, it is 3 thousand small batteries, or 3 million. Mercury contamination in the landfills will be a huge problem that comes from consumer disposal of CFLs.

I throw them away, but then again, I'm not afraid of mercury. I used to play with liquid mercury! We used to take it to school in bottles. We would pour it onto our hands and watch it make perfect little balls that could be broken up into many more little balls. I never saw any ill effects, and that was 40-45 years ago. Just don't drink the stuff. :/ No biggie.. All this crap with the CFL bulbs strikes me as extreme paranoia.. Good grief.. Probably not enough actual mercury in the things to fill up 30 decent size thermometers.. Would not even fill 1/8 the bottom reservoir of a thermometer I bet. And people never got twinkle toed and silly over the mercury in thermometers. Or at least I don't. I think it's a silly issue. I'd laugh my ass off at anyone that called a hazmat team to clean up a broke CFL.. Good grief... :/

The color spectrum on the ones I use are so close to incandescent, I hardly notice a difference. And even a dimmed incandescent is probably going to use a good bit more power than a CFL. A 60 watt equal CFL only draws 14 watts. A 40 watter only draws about 9 watts.. Not much more than a regular 1950's Christmas tree bulb which were usually 7 watt.

I hear some of the newer CFL's are dimmable.

Myself, I think CFL's are the cats ass vs the incandescent bulbs. I've been using them for at least 5 years. Inside, and outside. I use zero incandescent bulbs here now. They waste way too danged much energy.

To me, unless they can produce some "warm" color LED's, it's the LED's that have the coldest light, not the CFL's, which have had warm color versions out ever since I've been using them. Like I say, I can't tell enough difference to worry about. They aren't like the fluorescent tubes of old, which were quite cold in color. I've never seen a LED that really had a warm light so far. They all look very cold and bluish to me..

I generally consider Ed to have total crap for brains, but I got to side with him on the CFL bulbs. Beats the heck out of the old bulbs unless you would rather have a large amount of the power turn to heat instead of light. The cats ass for drop lights too.. I can't count how many incandescent bulbs I've broke dropping them when used in drop lights. Never happens with a CFL.. I can drop one ten feet and it wouldn't hurt it I bet. Drop a filament bulb in a drop light 1 foot and it's often toast. Used to aggravate the crap out of me when I'm up in an attic. Now my drop lights are CFL's.

I throw them away, but then again, I'm not afraid of mercury. I used to play with liquid mercury! We used to take it to school in bottles. We would pour it onto our hands and watch it make perfect little balls that could be broken up into many more little balls. I never saw any ill effects, and that was 40-45 years ago. Just don't drink the stuff. :/ No biggie.. All this crap with the CFL bulbs strikes me as extreme paranoia.. Good grief.. Probably not enough actual mercury in the things to fill up 30 decent size thermometers.. Would not even fill 1/8 the bottom reservoir of a thermometer I bet. And people never got twinkle toed and silly over the mercury in thermometers. Or at least I don't. I think it's a silly issue. I'd laugh my ass off at anyone that called a hazmat team to clean up a broke CFL.. Good grief... :/

The color spectrum on the ones I use are so close to incandescent, I hardly notice a difference. And even a dimmed incandescent is probably going to use a good bit more power than a CFL. A 60 watt equal CFL only draws 14 watts. A 40 watter only draws about 9 watts.. Not much more than a regular 1950's Christmas tree bulb which were usually 7 watt.

There isn't enough mercury in the bulb YOU throw away, but when millions of others bulbs are also thrown away, the mercury contaminatioin is a significant problem. Ask any environmentalist -- of which I am not one.

Your comparison to a mercury thermometer is bogus -- thermometers will last forever and ever, I have one on a patio post that's been there for 20 years, and will likely be there for another 20. My CFLs are lucky to last 5 years because the usage model is entirely different than the thermometer.

I'm also not the one that developed the hazmat response for a broken light bulb, but I know that there is one. Mercury is by all accounts some nasty stuff. I played with liquid mercury as a kid too, but that doesn't mean it is harmless.

I also pumped gas before there were vapor recovery nozzles, so I breathed in hundreds of pounds of benzene fumes before somebody figured out that I was slowly killing myself, and everybody else in the Los Angeles Basin.

Many get broken.

I started pumping gas in the mid 60's.. My grandfather had a Texaco station.. :/ Gas smelled much better then, than it does now. Gas back then had a nice aroma. Now it smells like polluted diesel fuel. :(

How come your reader doesn't show attributes normally? Your posts are confusing to read, and adding the just adds to the confusion.. :/ It should be adding a >, or >>, etc, to any text you didn't write.

Many get broken.

Not nearly as many as get tossed. And unless a thermometer breaks, it will last forever and never get tossed. A light bulb has a life, and will be tossed without regard to its structural integrity. And, most people will have one thermometer, and at least a dozen light bulbs. The sheer population of light bulbs coupled with the (as we now know) relatively short lifespan makes the mercury contamination they present a much bigger problem.

I started pumping gas in the mid 60's.. My grandfather had a Texaco station.. :/ Gas smelled much better then, than it does now. Gas back then had a nice aroma. Now it smells like polluted diesel fuel. :(

How come your reader doesn't show attributes normally? Your posts are confusing to read, and adding the just adds to the confusion.. :/ It should be adding a >, or >>, etc, to any text you didn't write.

It is something to do with GoogleGroups, from which you post. I don't know what the problem is, but I know it only happens when I reply to posts from GoogleGroups. I thought GoogleGroups was doing it, but I don't know ...

I show proper attributions all other posts except those from GoogleGroups.

You're one to be calling anybody a piece of shit.