Toyota's NASCAR Growing Pains

A lot of new teams fall down. Porsche re-entered F1 and failed, then came to CART and failed.

Considering Toyotas advancements in Indy car, I don't think it woll take them too long to sort out their teething problems...

considering toyotas floundering in f1, you still say that ?

considering toyotas floundering in f1, you still say that ?

They'll get it. It took Honda a FEW seasons to catch up to Renault.

Like...10...

Why would anyone care? Nextel Cup Cars have almost no relationship to production cars. They haven't even had bodies shaped like production cars for years now. Only Chevrolet's engines have even a distant relationship to the engines actually sold in current production cars (and the relationship becomes more distant every year).

Nextel Cup cars are little more than rolling billboards. NASCAR might not script races, but they certainly manipulate the results by subtle rule changes and their choice of when to throw caution flags.

Toyota may or may not succeed in NASCAR, but why care?

Ed

honda catch up to renault?! are you kidding me?! renault just fell back to where honda is. Both teams are lucky they have the red bulls and spyker there otherwise they woudl be last every race

I am not sure that they throw caution flags to favor certain drivers.

Can you prove this is true?

NASCAR is one of the few truly American sports (baseball and football are two others).

Jeff

NASCAR is just another type of racing. Today's NASCAR is nothing like its original roots. By the way, I believe basketball is another truly American sport, isn't it?

The same is true about baseball and basketball (not being like the original), with all the money involved. NASCAR is uniquely American. No other type of racing is like it in the world.

Basketball I believe was invented in the US, but it is played in Europe, unlike football, which is only played in the US and the suburb to the north which the cold temperatures.

Jeff

A Canadian invented Basketball.

Ro.

I think you misspelt Bowling...

HTH

What his name "James Nasium?" ;-)

Actually, Dr. James Naismith, while Canadian, invented basketball in Springfield, Massachusetts at the YMCA Training School (now Springfield College. So basketball was invented in the US.

Jeff

According to Ernest Hemingway: "There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."

(There is some doubt that he actually said this, because he wrote a treatise on Bullfighting that called it a tragedy.)

N.

I did not say they threw the caution flag to favor certain drivers - but they certainly throw the caution flag to bunch the cars up and prevent a race from being a runaway.

I think the most egregious example of caution flag abuse occurred back in 1985 at Talladega. This was when Bill Elliott had a really fast Thunderbird. Early in the race he had a power steering hose blow and lost two laps while it was it was being repaired. Ordinarily when this happens a driver can count on a number of caution flags that will allow for significant distances to be made up under caution. In this case NASCAR refused to throw a caution flag for literally 100s of miles, despite other cars wrecking and blowing engines. Despite this Elliott was able to make up the two laps completely under green. However, as soon as he took the lead, NASCAR threw the caution flag for "debris" on the track - like the debris had not been there for 20+ laps. Total BS use of the caution flag. For the rest of the race, NASCAR threw casutions anytime Elliott got a big lead. They knew his car was far superior to any of the other cars in the race (even other Thunderbirds) and did not want Elliott to win by multiple laps. That can't happen these days becasue NASCAR makes sure no particualr car brand can have an advantage, and when a team seems to "find something" you can be sure that NASCAR will outlaw it ASAP. Look for Hendrick's cars to slow down later this year.

What is there to prove? Watch a race - notice when they throw a caution flag for no apparent reason, or trivial reasons. Just remember, it is show. NASCAR stage manages everything. Earnhardt, Jr just got a big fine because the bolts used to attach the rear wing were not approved. And they made him change them BEFORE the race, but he still got in trouble. The cars are all the same except for decals and engines - and if one engine has an advantage, NASCAR changes the rules.

Do I think some drivers/teams get preferential treatment - YES. Can I prove it - NO. Do I think NASCAR race cars have any relationship to the performance, quality, value, of street cars - Definitely not.

Why is NASCAR different than other forms of auto racing? Automobile racing is a "worldwide sport" and has been since the first cars were built. The only thing unique about NASCAR is the iron grip the France family has on the series. All but four of the tracks are owned by two companies - International Speedway Corporation (the France Family - Daytona, Talladega, California, Chicagoland, Darlington, Homestead, Kansas, Martinsville, Michigan, Phoenix, Richmond, Watkins Glenn) and Speedway Motorsports (Burton Smith - Atlanta, Bristol, Charlotte, Las Vegas, Texas, Sears Point, Rockingham, 1/2 of North Wilkesboro). NASCAR is a lot more like the WWE than like the NFL, MLB, NHL, or even the NBA (although the NBA aspires to be like the WWE).

NASCAR is like "Survivor" on asphalt. The results might not be scripted, but they are manipulated. Just another made for TV reality show.

Ed

My mistake.

Or the other cars to get better through experience without help from NASCAR.

And how am I supposed to know whether or not the reason is trivial? How can I tell how long the debris has been on the track?

A lot of cars have an advantage. The advantage is biological: The members of the team.

AFAIK, they are the only racing where they use cars that look like street cars.

And one of the few types of racing that uses tracks (most European racing is done on closed-off streets, AFAIK).

It also grew up in America.

I disagree.

Again, I disagree.

Maybe I am being taken in by NASCAR. But who cares?

I like the show.

Check out NHRA (Funny Car, Pro Stock, Comp, Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, and Street); SCCA (GT, Improved Touring, Prepared, Production, American Sedan, Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring); IMSA GT3. While few people would confuse those cars with ordinary street cars, the same can be said of a NASCAR racer.

See the same list above for types of racing that use tracks. In Europe, check out Nurburgring, and Hockenheimring in German, Le Mans in France, Monza in Italy, Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, and Snetterton in Great Britain, Zandvoort in the Netherlands, Spa in Belgium...