92-96 Camry: Sludge? Common Problems?

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.wineasy.se, per being of bellicose mind posted:

"/per" I read the above thread in its entirety. Good of you to post it. It is SO obvious me that 7500 miles is a ridiculous amount of mileage on a turbocharged engine, using the fuels we use WHEN a conventional mineral engine oil is used.

When cars were simpler .... people knew more about them. IS IT SO DIFFICULT to pull out the dipstick and check the oil level and the color? IF it is or you can't be bothered ... then pay up the ASS for your ignorance. OWN it!

Having said this .... it is an EVIL CONSPIRACY to even suggest how long oil should stay in an engine WHEN the recommendation is based on IDEAL ... LABORATORY conditions but ... not reveal to the new car owner that the REAL WORLD oil service intervals require shorter intervals.

Marketing bull shit by scamsoil. IMHO, one of the most likely reasons why Valvoline is selling non-API spec and the BIG reason Scamsoil is selling almost exclusively non-API oil is because to get the API rating you must meet the specs using much LESS in the way of anti-wear additives then you could use 10 years ago. The reason is to avoid damaging the cat converter and having it fail due to excessive anti-wear compounds coming out the exhaust. So sure, Scamsoil can make a "better" oil (if by better you mean it can pass meaningless tests) then others if they don't meet the same FULL spec, including the limits for maximum amount of anti-wear chemicals.

Valvoline probably figures that as long as they call it a high mileage oil and target it to people with high millage cars it won't matter much because by then the car is out of factory warranty, even for the cats.

I haven't looked at the scamsoil "warranty" for a while but as I recall it covered the engine, not the emissions system. And even the engine coverage was worthless (just like all the other oil companies, not singling out scamsoil there) since there are so many hoops to jump thru I doubt anyone would ever bother trying to submit a claim.

-- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Maybe the problem is the price of the Mobil 1. Personally I think Mobil 1 is superior, but I am not at all sure it is 3 or 4 times as good. I would contned that as long as you purchase oil that meets the vehicle manufacturer's specifications and that you change it at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended intervals, then there is no advantage to buying Mobil 1. If you are less than diligent in changing your oil, Mobil

1 probably provides a safety margin. However, so far in my life, I've never had to replace a highway vehicle becasue of a worn out engine. I did finally trade off a 40 year old tractor becasue it was blowing a lot of oil out of the breather, but that was a special case.

Ed

reasons

anti-wear

While I know you are replying to me (Philip), may I ask which Valvoline oil is not API rated?

mileage

companies,

In the interest of fairness, you DO know that Amsoil sells a line of API / ILSAC approved oils BESIDES their non API approved? You DO know that all ILSAC GF3 oils meet the latest low sulfur / zinc levels that are supposed (?) to lengthen catalyst life? The "high mileage" mineral oils are always the wider/heavier grades (ie, 10w-40,

20w-50).... not 0w-20.

grading

think Mobil 1

engine. I

Well, let's take your points individually:

1). I was in PepBoys yesterday. Mobil1 retailed for $4.79 while the PepBoys brand was $1.19. Most of the Valvoline/Quaker State/Pennzoils were $1.99-2.29. All are SL grade yet .... it would be foolish to expect an absence of sludge formation using maximum drain intervals from the $1.19 stuff. There is also the matter of extreme temperature viscosity stability afforded by synthetics.

2). I would agree with you IF the car was being operated as mildly and optimally as the car manufacturer expected the vehicle to be operated. But... life presents us with unusual cold, heat, and loads that warrant special considerations. For example, the Geo Prizm I had carried only THREE quarts of oil in the engine. Couple this to short gearing (3,000 rpm at 60 mph), mountain driving followed by prolonged interstate driving at 75 mph (about 4,000 rpm) back and forth across the deserts of southern CA, AZ and NV year round and you've got ample reasons for running a "superior" oil.

3). No doubt about the additional margin of protection from a synthetic. (I know Huw is spinning around about some FUCH mineral oils that can outperform some synthetics for long drains but ... I'm choosing from the typically limited American auto parts shelves).

Go read bobistheoilguy.com

Mobil 1 turns in consistently good oil analysis numbers, but there are some modern non-synthetic oils that turn in as good or better numbers.

Most oils vastly exceed minimum specifications, so there still a big difference between oils. Remember that "the spec" is just a minimum. A good oil exceeds the API minimums (but note that I do NOT advocate the non-API approved oils like Spamsoil).

That said, the general conclusion I've heard is that Toyota has gone a bit overboard with PCV system to reduce emissions, and the result is a POTENTIAL sludging problem under certain combinations of oil brand, driving habits, and drain intervals.

European cars have been long intervals for much longer than synthetics have been around. For example, a mid-late 90's Saab spec's API SH grade. That was previous to them adopting synthetics in their line later on. It's not all an oil grade issue.

Don't get me wrong - I do 3K and/or synthetics, even in my Euro cars. But, the point is that there's something about those Toyota motors that are cooking oil unlike any other motors from them or others. I ran Toys for many years and we never heard of or saw those issues, even in some pretty badly abused motors.

That's my point too: there's something wrong with the *current* design for this motor. Perhaps it runs fine when everything is done to spec - but other manufacturers are not having these issues with slightly under maintained cars. In fact, AFAIK, even Toyota is not having these issues with some other motors they use.

Uh, that doesn't pre-date synthetics at all. Not by 20 years! Mobil 1 has been common since the mid/late 70s.

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, Jimmy being of bellicose mind posted:

According to the SAE, sludge is the result of LOW oil temperatures permitting the accumulation of acids, water, and carbon. If high oil temperatures were the cause, then I ask YOU to explain why all the air cooled motorcycle engines running around with NO positive crankcase ventilation are not plagued with sludge or varnish.

Because their designs don't suck like Toyotas ?

I should have said "synthetics have been in common use and spec'ed by European manufacturers".

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, Jimmy being of bellicose mind posted:

You think a Harley Davidson engine is designed better than a V6 Toyota? Try again and this time, engage your brain and reasoning faculties.

As a matter of fact... YEAH.

Oops! The little buggar messed up and showed he's a 14 year old brat that enjoys playing mind games. Are you that same pimply-faced Jimmy that tried to incite folks a while back? davidj92

Since you claim to be so well versed in Toyota's faults, would you enlighten us as to the actual NUMBERS of Toyota engines that have had a sludge issue rather than your SWAG's? davidj92

I bought a 1994 Camery with the 4 cyl and 100,000 mi on it the previous owner had every reciept for the oil changes at the dealer at the 7500 mi intervoled. When I first removed the valve cover fill cap It looked like crap! but I bought the car anyhow knowing preveious Toyota reliabilty. Since then I have changed the oil every 3000 mi. with mobil

1 and use only Toyota oil filters ( I cut my old oil filters apart to see inside and the toyota filters were alot better built! ). Since using the synthic oil the inside of the moter is a lot cleaner. You would not believe the amount of crud that came out of the motor that got removed out by the filter.On the other hand my girlfriend has a 1991 corolla with 290,000 miles on it with every oil change done at 3000mi at Jiffy lube and the motor looks very clean inside and does not burn any oil. The bottom line is to change the oil every 3000 mi or less. My Camry does not use any oil between oil changes, so in my opnion if you see a good used Toyota out there buy it but change the oil every 3000 mi .

You've been washing down drugs with drink.

You're perceptive abilities are incredible! You ought to go on stage as a psychic.

Now, back on topic: He asked a question. I responded. Most manufacturers are able to produce engine designs without sludge problems. Apparently Toyota can't. Next question ?