Timing belt: did you change it, did it break on you?

I've had four timing belts go... a Pinto, twice in a '91 Escort, and once in a '90 Geo Storm. In all but one case, it was either at startup, or when hitting the gas to leave a green light with no warning. In one case, the engine started to lose power, then the trans started downshifting out of overdrive. About 10 miles later it died and would not restart.

I don't know if the Pinto was "hurt"... we dumped it without fixing it. The Escort and Geo were not damaged by the failure.

--- Rich

Maintenance? What's maintenance?

TWICE!!! 120,000 miles each time. '85 Corolla GTS, Non-Interference (thank God!)

I haven't got that much time. It took the dealer 1.5 hours, with all the tools and a lift; it's a Twin Cam to boot. Would have taken me prolly 6 hours. My time's more valuable than that. Last change was $225.

The belt in my '93 Camry was changed at about 65,000 miles. I'd just bought the car a few thousand miles prior -- I asked the mechanic to toss the old one in the trunk. It looked almost new to me and the mech said "yeah it's good".

I'm at about 70,000 miles on that new belt -- I'll worry about it in another 20,000.

'92 Geo Tracker, just died from broken belt at 145,521 miles. It took me as long to get all of the small piece of the broken belt cleaned up as to change the belt. Was still running at 197978 when I got a different vehicle. Stan

Gen. III, timing belt replacement interval: 60,000 miles. If you change them at the recommended interval, they don't break. Did my own work. Found several errors and damagae inflicted by prior mechanics. Copy of my own records follows: (by the way, I learned to do this by reading online groups and the service manuals. When I first purchased the car, didn't even know how to change the air filter element)

Major Servicing: 120,124 miles: Replace: timing belt, crankshaft oil seal, oil pump oil seal, oil pump O-ring, camshaft oil seal, idler bearing, idler tensioner bearing, timing cover gasket set, valve cover gasket, ck valve clearances, PCV valve, PCV valve grommet, oil cap gasket, distributor O-ring, distributor cap, rotor, distributor packing, spark plug wires, spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, ck. battery, oil pan gasket, transmission pan gasket, water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, gas cap, differential service, engine moving control rod, accessory drive belts: power steering pump, A/C - alternator, alternator brushes, ck. chassis mounting bolt torque, set ignition timing

----------- Try pricing that list at the dealer, and then see if it's worth your time. With a few special tools, and most importantly the right attitude, the process can flow smoothly and be rewarding and enjoyable. If you take your time and do it right, there's a certain trust and satisfacton that results in knowing all is as it should be.

I've never had a car with a timing belt. Mine all use either gears or chains, none have worn out before the rest of the motor wore out. My personal opinion is that critical internal motor parts should be designed to last the life of the motor, not be routine maintenance items that upon failure will damage the motor beyond economical repair.

JazzMan

: Gen. III, timing belt replacement interval: 60,000 miles. If you change : them at the recommended interval, they don't break. : Did my own work. : Found several errors and damagae inflicted by prior mechanics. : Copy of my own records follows: (by the way, I learned to do this by : reading online groups and the service manuals. When I first purchased : the car, didn't even know how to change the air filter element)

I am inspired to try, at least for small things: I am an apartment dweller, there is no convenient place to store tools or do work.

I'll start with air filters and spark plugs. They are due. That will take care of tune up. :-)

Which manual do you recommend, Hays or Chilton? (98 Camry)

: My personal opinion is that critical internal : motor parts should be designed to last the life of the motor, : not be routine maintenance items that upon failure will : damage the motor beyond economical repair.

I agree, but must say I haven't chosen my cars with this in mind, only by overall reputation (after nameless student cars, first Corollas, then Camry's).

They say that at one time Rolls Royce used to come with sealed engine, with no maintenance ever needed by owner.

My 4cyl 91 Camary?s orginal timing belt lasted 185,000 miles and I changed it. It was not broken or giving me any problems but I was getting a bit nervous about it. When I took it off it was steched a like bit but not starting to break or fray. The new belt caused me more trouble than the old one in that I tensiond it as directed and even checked it for breakin stretch but it still loosened up enough at

300 miles that it jumped time one tooth and I had to reset and retension it. After that I had no more problems until car was totalled at 220k though engine still ran after that. I even used a Dayco belt on it and it still stretched a good bit during breakin.

Both. They both have strong and weak points. My experience is that a weak point in one is covered better in the other.

You mean no maintenance ALLOWED by the owner. As I remember it, they still needed maintenance, but by the dealer or factory. Those cars usually came with a RR-certified chauffeur, who was expected to take care of the routine things.

Merritt

Better still is a for real Toyota manual.

I tell my customers to get a set of 'real' factory manuals thrown in as part of any new vehicle purchase. More often than not, it will be the first time the salesperson will have ever been asked for them, and they may not even know they even exist. (They usually come from the parts dept, just like floor mats or whatever.)

They can be found on eBay too.

A lot of them come in multiple volumes now, be sure to get them all.

They can save you a ton of money over the life of the car, and are a good selling point when it comes time to sell... if the car is totaled or stolen, they can easily eBayed.

Do not leave them in the car if you ever take it to the dealer, they WILL pull them out thinking they're theirs!

Good Luck!

Erik

I can't speak for a Chilton's manual, but my Haynes Corolla/ Geo Prizm

1993-2002 manual, bought 4 months ago, was assembled improperly. It begins at page 2A-13; Section 1 is incomplete, begins at page 1-11. Sections 2-A, 2-B and 2-C, in complete form, follow Section 1. Also, there's no index page.

To edit a long story, the belt on my `86 Camry broke at about 178K miles when a bearing from either the idler or tensioner broke up and cut the belt. I recommend having these parts replaced when changing a belt.

I would too after 140 to 180K miles but not after a mere 60 or 80K miles.

My 4cyl 91 Camary?s orginal timing belt lasted 185,000 miles . . . I tensiond it as directed and even checked it for breakin stretch but it still loosened up enough at

300 miles that it jumped time one tooth ===========The trick I found for tensioning the belt is as follows: Always use a new spring on the tensioner pulley, but don't expect that little spring to apply sufficient tension by itself. Loosen the adjustment bolt after installing the new belt keeping tension on the side toward the front of the engine. I used a large hook tool but you might find some other type of pry bar, and pulled up with a great deal of force using both arms - just a gradually increasing smooth pull - enough to move the whole engine. Did this about three times. Then release the pressure and allow the tensioner spring to hold the belt by itself as you tighten the adjustment bolt. Essentially you are pre tensioning the belt to remove stretch that will otherwise appear within the first few minutes of operation. That should eliminate any problems with timing belt tension.

The cheap or free oil changes aren't worth it, I think. I can do an oil change on any of our cars in 20 minutes in the driveway, and that's taking time to drink a beer while doing it. The trick is to get a good floor jack and jackstands and a creeper, and also to buy oil and filters in advance, when you are already driving by the auto parts store. I also check the paper for sales on motor oil and stock up when it goes on sale - so far I have not paid more than a dollar for a quart of oil.

It would take me more time to drive to the oil change place, wait for them to do it, then drive home. And the times that I have available to drive to an oil change place - such as Saturday afternoon - are the times that everyone else has available and want it done also, so there is always a line.

Ted