Corolla, Camry, or Prius?

In my area the Prius is no longer selling for MSRP or over MSRP. That ended when California reached the limit of the HOV lane stickers that they were issuing. Demand went way down after that. The Prius is selling for under MSRP, but for more than dealer invoice. The Corolla still sells for well under dealer invoice, as does the Camry.

This last sentence... the dealers take a loss on every Camry & Corolla they sell? This I find difficult to believe.

Cathy

The invoice price is not the same as dealer cost. The dealer is not losing any money when selling under invoice.

Even without any factory to dealer incentives, the dealer cost is 5% less than the base invoice cost for Toyotas (2% holdback, 2% TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising), 1% WFR (wholesale financial reserve). Toyota is rather unique in that they base the kickbacks on the wholesale price, not the MSRP. Dealers in most areas have to take that TDA and contribute some or all of it to the corporative advertising program for their region, so in reality the end up with 3% of a kickback.

Do you think when a dealer advertises "below invoice" that they are actually losing money on each unit they sell? It doesn't work that way. Besides the kickbacks, there are often extra factory to dealer incentives that allow below-invoice pricing.

Invoice has become the price to bargain down from in the U.S., except on very high demand, low supply vehicles. The last two Toyota's I bought I paid well under invoice. In one case it was more than $1500 under invoice (a Camry).

You have to laugh when you see someone claiming that they got a great deal on a vehicle because they got it for $200 over invoice. Very few vehicles require such a high price. The Honda Odyssey used to command a big premium, as did the Toyota Prius during the time there were carpool stickers available.

Right now you can probably buy one of the large SUVs for many thousands of dollars under factory invoice/

Okay, then laugh at me. But I'll take that hard-bargained-for $200 over what was invoice price way before I'll pay anything *near* MSRP for a Corolla. How many people walk into a dealership, see something they like on the lot, & that day agree to pay whatever the sales person says is the lowest they'll go? (Which is baloney.)

Cathy

Very few

You shouldn't have to bargain at all for $200 over invoice. For Camrys and Corollas the dealers often advertise prices lower than this in their "all in stock at this price" sales.

Actually I shouldn't laugh. I have no idea where you are located. It's very possible that California dealers accept lower prices for Toyotas than dealers in whatever state you're in. It's extremely competitive here, even more so in southern California than northern California. So maybe we're just spoiled out here. Don't worry, our high sales tax makes up for the lower prices.

(pssssst--"invoice" is the new MSRP)

It certainly seems to be the case in my area. Dealers are very happy to sell at invoice price. Too happy.

NY; upstate.

It's

NY isn't exactly renowned for low taxes. When I last bought a car in '04, the sales tax was close to 10% (9.75, IIRC) in this particular locale. Not nice, esp. when buying big-ticket items.

Cathy

Consider yourselves lucky.

Cathy

Ha. I wish.

For Camrys

I have yet (since '72) to find exactly what I want on a local dealer's lot. Never the correct combo of options sitting there.

Cathy

The options are ordered from the factory by the regional Toyota distributor. The dealers theoretically have some input into the decision (if they want to make their voice heard) but the distributors do not want to get stuck with an unpopular combination of options.

The HV battery is mounted directly behind the rear seat bottom and is partially underneath the seat bottom IIRC so the trunk/hatch space is mostly unaffected.

The battery ECU has strict limits coded in the firmware that will not allow the battery to go over 82% or under 40% SOC (state of charge) and applies equalization charges as necessary to keep the series string balanced. The battery gauge on the multifunction display (MFD/touch screen LCD) only shows the active range so no bars= ~40% and all bars= ~80% charge. The battery chemistry is NiMh. I personally don't know of any other portable devices with a NiMh pack that treats it as well as the Prius (and any other HSD vehicle) treats its pack.

There is also a small 12V lead-acid battery that is supposed to be AGM with a vent tube but has been found to be a conventional flooded design in certain cars.

Cold operation is not a problem since the HV battery cranks the gas engine. About the worst that could happen is reduced performance until the HV battery warms up to a normal temp. In the classic NHW11 Prius (2001-2003) this mode is noted by a small turtle icon that lights up on the dash but the NHW20 (2004-current) doesn't have that light. Go to

as he lives in Minnesota and has lots of info on cold winter operation.

Dunno :-)

That would be the Scion XB AKA the shoebox on wheels (my term). There isn't a hybrid model yet but there is a third party BEV version called the E-Box

True, but the Prius still has a 12V lead acid battery which powers the ECUs, lights, radio, brake accumulator pump, inverter coolant pump, electric power steering, ETC. The only thing it doesn't do is crank the engine. It is recharged off of the HV pack by a 100A DC-DC converter set to about 14V. Note that since the engine shuts off on a regular basis the hydraulic brakes aren't vacuum assisted as that is what the accumulator pump is for and the power steering is electric not hydraulic.

Sorry but your Prelude was a 2 door subcompact Coupe not a 4 door compact Sedan (NHW11 2001-2003) or a 5 door midsize hatchback (NHW20 2004-current) Prius. It also didn't have a touch screen in the dash standard and without

2-4 of these 250A alternators: it also couldn't supply the electrical power that the Prius can: .

The prius just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it or work the numbers, 45mpg highway (summer numbers, brand new batteries, ````````````````````````````````

---Huh; colleague got 55 mpg driving their new Prius on the Thruway.

`````````````````````````````` winter is much worse, and battery charge capacity reduces every year), that mpg is what my 85 prelude got, `````````````````

---Your Prelude got 45 mpg??

---Cathy

your getting a 12K econo box gas car that's been hybridized.

The plug in hybrids to be released in a few years seem to be a much better solution, 40miles on one overnight charge, no gas usage unless you go over 40miles between charges.

Not sure why that is better. You have to pay for the electricity, most of which is produced by power plants that burn fossil fuels (natural gas or coal). Admittedly, some electricity is produced by nuclear plants or hydroelectric, but it is not cheap.

?? I didn't write the above post to which you replied.

Cathy

Go back a few posts; bungalo steve wrote that post, pas moi.

Cathy

Sorry.