OH NO! gas leaaaaaaaaak

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:05:14 -0400, "matthew j henschel" ran around screaming and yelling:

No offense Matt, but i say sell it as quick as you can...you just don't seem cut out to care for a 26 year old vehicle...this is just "the tip of the iceburg"....get out now.. JT

I've got a 30 year old motorcycle I love dearly and have rebuilt from the ground up. I have got it to the point where I have monthly issues instead of daily ones. I can see every gear and cog and moving part spin in my head. Hell, I even pieced together the transmission in the thing-- talk about tight tolerances. I spent 5 years getting it together, and I'm not even finished yet. I know that I am cut out to take care of old vehicles, and in fact was in the process of changing all the fuel lines and such today on this old VW.

The problem with doing any serious/expensive with this bus is, the frame is rusting, and badly in the rear. It has been in an accident or two, and the body is not really worth saving. On the upside, the motor runs seemingly half-way okay, and the transmission is strong. However, I'm still going back and forth about getting too attached to a vehicle that is going to steal limited funds from the ole shovelhead and be a pile of red dust in less then 10 years no matter what I do to it. I hate to part with it though, as I've already spent countless hours hunting down parts and fixing things... Among numerous other things, It now has a working thermostat, the sliding door works like a charm instead of falling on your foot, I cleaned the hell out of the interior floor and cut and laid new carpet and plastic sheeting. It's got new tranny oil, new plugs, new points, a new rotor, new distributor cap. All major body rust has been knocked out and replaced with fiberglass (one wheelwell is entirely bondo-glass and a good chunk of the rear is as well), and the minor stuff hit with rust converter. The brakes didn't even work when I got ahold of it, but after a lot of cursing and cleaning and heating, the drums broke loose. There are no longer any vacuum leaks. and a big ETC.

I know I have what it takes, the question I ask myself and to some degree in my prior post, the group, is this particular vehicle worth it?

The real question I was asking the group, as I recall, was "Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to replace a broken off tank outlet on a fuel injected 1978 VW Van." NOT, "Please tell me if I am capable of dealing with the simple mechanics of an aged volkswagen?"

I'm capable enough, thank you. And I may just sell the old rust bucket anyhow, but I'd at least like to present it as running (and I -WONT- sell a vehicle I know has gas leaks.) Might you have any helpful ideas as to the nature of the physical problem at hand?

If you hadn't figured it out yet, I did take offense to your "you haven't got what it takes comment." I -AM- what it takes, it's just a matter of deciding whether this ratty old bus has what it takes to stay in my collection. Try to phrase yourself a little more carefully next time.

-Matt

OK. Take out the new rotor you put in and send the thing to the bone yard .

If you're determined to salvage it at low cost, maybe fit a short piece of tubing *inside* the stub. Drill/ream the stub to size and epoxy the tubing in.

Plan B: Put a TEE fitting in the remaining good tank outlet and divert the other hose into the TEE. I haven't actually done this before but it may work. If nothing else, it will generate a lot of traffic on this newsgroup. more (Plug the broken outlet with fiberglass.)

Or...come on up to Cleveland, OH and I might fix you up with a tank.

Note: I'm not putting you down nor questioning your abilities; there are some days when you gotta cut your losses...

Speedy Jim ('78 Bus)

LOL! The thought has crossed my mind. I've cooled down enough were I'd probably pull the tank if NECESSARY, but I'd just as soon wait until I have the funds to do the clutch and the motor up fairly decently, and maybe attempt to splice in some new metal for the rust.

I had considered doing that but in reverse, that is, fit the tubing on the outside of the stub...

I had also very much thought about that! I don't believe it would work though. Or would it?? Nah, it couldn't be that simple... They must've used two outlets for a reason, no? Otherwise they could've just kept the same part number and used the same tank as the carb'd models?

Got close family in Mentor, maybe you'll see me knockin on your door :-P In all reality, if I pull the tank, this is nothing some carefully well-flushed-tank soldering wouldn't take care of, right? Or maybe even just bolt some sort of tire valve in there/

THAT is the truth. I knew I was going to get too attached to this damn van. As ugly as it is, I enjoy the hell out of driving around in it, and it seems like if it weren't for the little shit getting in the way, it'd be a seriously road worthy ride. Hell, I've already got the dual-battery thing going, running an inverter powering a fridge. I'll make it work somehow, damnit!

back to the grindstone. Thanks for the help...

-Matt

Sorry for the bit of an outburst earlier.

My main mode of beater transportation ('92 ford tempo) is up on jack-stands due to warped rotors or something; shakes fierce when braking. While I'm in there, a cv boot needs replacing. Driver Side Outer. Turns out with my ford automatic transaxle, the left one needs to come out too. Fun.

So I start the job, get in the transporter to take the rotors and run some errands, go up the street and notice my clutch seems a little out again. Turn around, start adjusting, see a GAS LEAK. awww sh@!. I have a exams monday and tuesday that I desperately need to study for, and two broken vehicles (physics and discrete logic). Then someone questions whether "I have what it takes" just as I'm wondering it a bit myself.

NOT ONE OF MY BEST DAYS.

The Harley was still asleep for the winter, but I brushed her off and she runs so beautiful. The smile has returned to my face :-) Now if I could just get rid of the damn leaks!! All 30 year old motors should run so strong. I hope to run like that when I'm 30! :-P

exhaustedly yours--

-Matt

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:53:42 -0400, "matthew j henschel" ran around screaming and yelling:

matt..screw the bus, got pics of the Harley? JT(who *will* have a harley some day...can you say knucklehead?)

So whereabouts are you, geographically? Tanks are not hard to come by. First step is to remove it and I'm too tired after reinstalling my engine and tranny today to talk you through it. There's only a couple little "tricks" to it but a real headache if you don't know them.

I would say that a "T" will not work, but I could be wrong. The return line is the second fitting. It needs a free flow there and the pump needs to pull non-agitated gasoline (not full of air bubbles!)

Gotta remove the high parts off the engine to get the tank out. The firewall has two screws up from the bottom at the outside corners besides all the screws you can see.

Feel free to e-mail me. I know where there's a tank that's probably good, but I bet they aren't s'posed to be shipped!

fans and gurus of

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declare the tank

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laying around for a

Fuckaknuckle. How 'bout a pan/shovel

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:29:07 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@xyzzy.stafford.net (jjs) ran around screaming and yelling:

fuckaknuckle? that will make you go blind... i helped a fellow restore a 47 knucklehead years back...was a damn fine bike(you pan/shovel is sweet too) JT

I put some quick pics up a few weeks ago

any deadhead/jazz/clacid rock types reading, check my bootleg list @

-Matt

...I'm in Maryland... Don't bother with a big dissertation, I've found a few links online that look as if they should help, and I've got the Chiltons. I do have to drop the engine, correct?

Yea, a tee fitting may or may not work, but since you're the second to say tanks aren't hard to come by, I must just not know where to look yet. I'll likely pull the tank over the weekend, even if it means dropping the engine. I feel the gas tank probably isn't the best place to be screwing around with quick fixes, even though there is still a possibility of me passing this thing on to someone else who doesn't have a hard 2-wheeled addiction. I've never been able to sell a vehicle to anyone while knowing some problem I knew about hadn't been fixed. too many scruples

Hmmmm, seems you do know a few tricks :-) I'm tempted to pull the engine anyway, but I'd like to leave "just about well enough" alone. What do you mean by the 'high parts'? Very interesting, my guru friend. Guess you don't drop a subaru engine in one of these things without learning a few tricks. BTW, any pics of your conversion around?

No, I bet they aren't!!! Lemme get the one I've got out and examine it before I bother you about the possibility of consuming that particular tank...

Thanks again compadre--

-Matt

nice lines on the bike. i was considering going the pan/shovel route myself, with a pan top and shovel bottem however. maybe in the future, although the heads i got on mine look as if they've been worked on a bit, and are stamped with "LPS," whoever he was. However, I am in love with the looks of them panhead rocker boxes.

Hey, dig the springer on that guy too. Where'd you find that one? I hope you got a lot for it, looks as if you spent a few hours and then some...

I ain't enough of a hardass for the hardtail though.

-Matt

Repair is always cheaper than replacement. Even if you only get 10 years out of it, there are many people who will go thru 2 new cars in that time and think of the cash they wasted.

The nasty part of this repair is that I believe you have to remove the engine and transmission to get the tank out. Once you get it out, I suspect you could get it fixed at a radiator repair shop (solder in a replacement tube) or get a used tank from a scrap yard. I don't think either option is going to be expensive, just a PITA.

BTW, don't try to solder this yourself, unless you know the tricks to keep the gas tank from becoming a bomb when you bring the torch to it.

-

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

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Thanks for that last sentance there, that is one great way to look at it.

That last step is the kicker. I'm tempted to solder it myself, after flushing it with water 10 times and then letting it sit for a few days, but I think it's probably still a bad idea. Likely I'll be pulling the damn motor and tranny, breaking 5 other things in the process, and having that tank repaired.

yeeeeeeeeeeehaw :-) at least I'm sure I have no other alternative.

thanks Jim

-Matt

Matt, there is no reason to pull the engine unless for 'other' reasons. You need to remove everything on top of the engine - that is, the air plenum chamber and the runners down to the heads (& throttle body, S-hose, air cleaner - other obvious stuff.) The plenum chamber is the toughest as it has a bolt with 13mm head that is a PITA to reach - may need a U-joint to get it, as I recall. I don't think you even need to remove the distributor.

Once you get all the stuff off the top of the engine, Remove whatever is attached to the firewall - like the double relay and resistor pack. Remove the firewall - it's held with sheetmetal screws all the way around the perimeter (the ones you can see.) The two from underneath should be phillips head sheetmetal screws and they are just outside of the gas tank strap bolts that are also sticking down there. When you crawl under, might as well take a deep 13mm or 1/2" and pop the nuts off those strap bolts.

After you have removed the firewall, the rest is a bit more obvious. You may (will) need to access the filler pipe and hoses on the right side. There is a large round plate behind (to the right of) the airfilter that you can pry off with a screwdriver. Look ath the connector for the FI ECU. It has a release catch at the bottom and a support that it hangs and hinges from on top. Remove the connector. Two 6mm bolts with

10mm heads secure the ECU. Pull it straight out rearward - it will pull hard, but nothing is holding it but a tight fit. Now you can reach through that hole where the round cover was and get to any of the filler pipe connections, including the ripped elbow at the gas cap! [Ripped elbow: Reach a finger inside the gastank filler from outside the body (the place where you fill the tank from) Feel around that elbow and you will probably feel a rip. If you never smelled gasoline while driving, it might be okay still. If you need to replace it, that little stub that the cap attaches to secures the elbow in place. Remove the screws, remove the cap stub (note orientation!!) Push the rubber flange through the hole and remove the steel pipe it is attached to from inside through the round access hole. All the clamps in there should be phillips head only (no hex heads if stock, as I recall.)]

The tank - pull the straps that you removed the nuts from up and free. Remove the vent hoses (draw a diagram 1st) Remove the filler hose from the neck at the right end of the tank. Remove the wiring for the gauge sender. If the gauge works, don't disturb the sender. Underneath, peel back the insulation from around where the remaining outlet / return line is. Lift the tank enough to clear the line and pull the tank straight out the back.

Installation is easy except for the filler hose connections. My arms are too big to fit in there comfortably. Any tank for FI buses should work (SHOULD) I know of no mods there but that doesn't mean there aren't any! '76 - '79 should be a safe bet. If you need to replace that ripped elbow, it can be done at any time (used to be $6 but last I checked they were getting $35 for them! Get the non- unleaded version and it should be about 1/4 the price of the unleaded version.

No big deal. Enjoy the ride. -BH

>

YES it is!!

Read my new message on gas tank work, which I am about to post in a minute. A general warning, suggestions based on experience.

Jan

Be warned, that's NOT the way to do it. Anything you try with the tank full of "air" has a pretty good chance of blowing up in your face. This would probably mean that you would never get to finish the bus....

If you really want to do this yourself, figure out a way to support the tank with the part that needs repair upmost. Then fill the tank up with water to within 1/2" of the area where you want to work, leaving only a tiny bubble (less than 1/2 cup) of "air" above the water. Then heat with your torch.

This way there is insufficient volume available for combustion. You may get some little pops, but nothing dangerous.

-

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

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