1992 Volkswagen (VW) Jetta Diesel TDI Overheat Coolant Leak Issue

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to post a problem I had experienced with my 1992 VW Jetta TDI, and what I finally figured the solution to be.

I read an awful lot of posts regarding engine overheat w/diesels, and almost every one was pointing to cracked head gasket... I also read in a few posts that the fan has high/low speed; this is true. The low speed will come on if you turn the environment control to anything with a snowflake on it (might only be on models equipped with AC). The high speed is controlled by thermoswitches (as I understand).

The problem was that my car would need coolant every once in a while, but seemingly only after long trips on the highway. The problem got progressively worse as the summer came on. As I would drive down the highway, the temperature gauge would be running fine (around the 1/2 mark), and then all of a sudden (usually after an hour of driving), it would spike up to 3/4 (where my coolant boils), until the low coolant light started flashing. I thought, "that doesn't make sense... on the highway I should have plenty of cold air going through my rad". I would then stop at the side of the highway, fill my reservoir up, and start driving. Sometimes, I would have to pour in a gallon of water, depending on how long the low coolant light was on. After I refilled, and started driving, the temperature gauge would spike right back up within 10-30 seconds. Low coolant light came on after about another minute. Needless to say, it made long highway trips even longer.

I was thinking thermostat...

I brought it to my mechanic, and he did some re-wiring to fix a thermoswitch. He said the fan wasn't coming on when the engine got hot, so it would overheat. He said he was 99.9% sure that the thermoswitch wiring would fix it, because the fan would now come on when the rad was hot. Didn't make sense to me (on the highway, I'm going 120 km/h anyway, so why would that tiny fan help?). I told him to replace the thermostat anyway (he already charged me for the wiring).

No noticeable difference. Same problem next time I was on a long trip. After enough troubleshooting, I learned that my car would only overheat AFTER it had lost enough coolant. I couldn't find signs a leak anywhere, except for at my reservoir steam vent, and a pressure test at Canadian Tire didn't show any leaks in my rad (btw: the Canadian Tire mechanic thought I had a cracked head gasket, but I didn't see any discoloration in my oil, or bubbles in my coolant, so I didn't change anything. He also said that my car overheated because I had too much water in my antifreeze... I noticed that when I was running close to 80% antifreeze, the boiling point was just past the

3/4 mark on the temp gauge; with 95% water, it boils right at the 3/4 mark. It boiled either way. Lesson: Don't go to Canadian Tire.)

So, I was confused. I read all over the internet that it's usually a cracked head gasket (but I never actually let my engine run past the boiling point of my coolant, and couldn't see bubbles in my water, or water in my oil). My mechanic was stumped (he said thermoswitch is all he could think of, so my fan would come on). My rad was obviously fine, as it passed the pressure test, was fine in the city, and good on the highway for an hour. My thermostat was new. I was even running a good mixture of antifreeze in case there was a glitch in the matrix, and the Canadian Tire mechanic was actually right. I was absolutely stumped...

I put paper towel near my reservoir bowl vent to confirm that this is where it was leaking. It leaked once in the city (only a small amount), and on my next 2 hour highway trip (a whole lot). Should I plug up the steam vent? Why not?

Didn't help -- water still found its way out of the reservoir where I tried to plug it. I finally ran the car in my driveway (3000 rpm) for a good hour, watching the coolant level in the reservoir. After the engine warmed up, the coolant level came up in the bowl, close to overflowing. Then the fan switched on automatically, and the level dropped. The fan turned off, and the water level crept up again, same thing. Again... Uh oh... this time the fan didn't come on, so the level didn't drop... coolant started leaking out of my top of my reservoir (I plugged the steam vent). Leaking BAD. I turned on my enviro control to the snowflake (to start the rad fan). Fan came on, level dropped.

Everything suddenly made sense. When it was winter, I kept the environment control on Defrost the whole time, so the rad fan was always on, and whatever valve the rad fan opens stayed open (so I never had any problems). When summer set in, I ran with my windows down, and my environment controls off (simply because my AC doesn't work). When I turned that fan off, the associated valve wouldn't work properly, and my engine would spew coolant out of my reservoir until it was low, and then I'd *overheat*.

Being as cheap as I am, and frustrated over how much I've already spent, I've decided to run the car as is, but with the fan on all of the time (enviro controls left on defrost). It's funny, but the mechanic was actually right... George Orwell would say he understood how, but not why. He told me HOW to fix the problem, but not WHY (he only knew from experience, and drew his own conclusions). He said that the thermoswitch will stop the overheating, because the fan cools the coolant in the rad when operating properly.

Not entirely true. The thermoswitch will stop the overheating, but because it electronically opens a valve when the engine is warm, allowing the coolant from the reservoir back into the engine for proper circulation. When this valve fails to open, coolant will boil out of your reservoir, because the 1/4" line between the top rad hose and reservoir will still feed coolant into the reservoir, but it can't go anywhere, so it will overflow. I noticed someone else had this problem years ago, but never posted any success.

I'm not sure where this valve is (maybe where the reservoir hose connects to the engine), but it sure caused me problems. It's the first I've heard of a cooling system having 2 valves, but I figure that's the only thing that makes sense. Why else would the level drop INSTANTLY when the fan runs? Why would the level in the reservoir climb in the first place? It MUST be a valve. Nothing else can over-heat an engine full of water in 10 seconds except for a closed valve (which is why I initially thought thermostat). That's my theory anyway. I hope someone saves themselves a few hours (and hopefully more than a few dollars) from this. Thermoswitch or mysterious valve: whatever you want to call it. What a frustrating problem...

Anyone care to comment?

I'm going on a long trip this weekend. I'll post again if my hack solution doesn't solve the issue.

-Randy

(PS: My power steering pump leaked. I didn't want to spend $200 for a rebuilt one, so I disconnected the belt, and get my daily workout steering manually. I was going to run it with the belt on, but apparently, the power steering fluid lubricates the whole pump assembly, so if you don't take that belt off, you'll cease your pump and snap the belt eventually without any PS fluid. Good advice.)

Reply to
Rand-E
Loading thread data ...

I'm stumped again. While it didn't lose as much coolant as usual with the fan on, a lot still leaked out of the vent in the side of the reservoir (my cap seals tight). If it leaked because the system is pressurized, wouldn't it leak in the city too? (Only seems to leak on long highway trips.) It always leaks out of what appears to be a steam vent in the side of my plastic reservoir bowl (checked by shoving a dry paper towel in). Thanks for the suggestion.

Frustrated, Randy

Reply to
Rand-E

you have an air pocket in the system.

Its supposed to self-purge, but only if you follow the correct procedure AND the small hose that goes from the head to the top of the reservoir is not plugged.

Disconnect the hose, see if the hose is clear and the hole it goes to in the head is clear and then fill with water, start the engine, wait until the temp is reaching halfway and stop the engine. wait an hour, refill again, and repeat until no more water gets in.

never let the system boil. if it boils, an air pocket WILL form and youll have to start again.

Reply to
Eduardo K.

Check your belt and water pump bearing, maybe your water pump is not working properly and is slipping at high revolutions, my bearing was going and overheated the car at 120, but once it cooled I stuck to side roads in the city, and it was fine. The belt tension will give the same effect (bearing actually was so gone it relaxed the belt).

Rand-E wrote:

Reply to
E

Check your belt and water pump bearing, maybe your water pump is not working properly and is slipping at high revolutions, my bearing was shot and overheated the car at 120, but once it cooled I stuck to between 60 and 80 on side roads in the city, and it was fine. The belt tension will give the same effect (bearing actually was so gone it relaxed the belt).

Rand-E wrote:

Reply to
E

Thank you for your responses.

Eduardo,

You are right. I neglected to mention that while I was on the highway, if I ran low on coolant, I would have an air-lock problem. This is why the car would heat up again after only 10 seconds of driving AFTER the coolant boiled, and the low coolant light came on. After the quick overheating happened about 10 times, I finally filled the rad from the top rad hose (drank about a gallon), and it worked fine for the rest of the trip. You're absolutely right, every time the coolant boils, if enough boils out, and the low coolant light comes on, it develops an air pocket in the system. The small top hose that connects the top rad hose to the reservoir isn't plugged - I checked (that was my first course of action after discovering the air pocket). But you are right about the air pocket.

However, this doesn't solve my problem, it only gets me home safely after boiling... The problem is that I am leaking coolant out of my reservoir (for some reason). When enough coolant leaks out, my car overheats. I don't understand why it leaks out. It only leaks out on long highway trips (mind you, I've never had a city trip over an hour), and at random intervals (not seemingly dependent on outdoor temperature either). I have to admit that having the fan on helps, but doesn't solve my problem. It only leaked out ONCE in the city (when I had connected my AC, so I d/ced it again). I have never had an overheating problem in the city (unless I am low on coolant from the highway).

It's extremely wierd... I watch my temperature gauge, and it is fine for roughly an hour (sometimes 1.5 hrs). Then, it will slowly and painfully climb to about 5/8s. Then I know I have a problem, and pull over to fill the reservoir (turning the heat on will bring the temp gauge down to half until I pull over). I put paper towels beside the steam vent in the reservoir, and they're drenched whenever this happens.

What I don't understand is why this only occurs on long trips. If the bearing in my water pump is shot, then it would be a sure thing, and it would overheat pretty quickly at high rpms (not after an hour of maintaining temp at 1/2 mark). I think there are 2 or 3 belts going over the water pump, so I can't see slipping (and it wouldn't make much sense again for the same reasons). Do you agree E? How long did it take for your car to overheat when you were on the highway w/your bearing issue? I also ran the car for 5 minutes while it was warm in my driveway at 3000 RPM (where it revs on the highway), and the gauge wouldn't budge (I had just filled the coolant though).

I'm almost positive that the only place that I'm leaking is the reservoir (I can always see antifreeze on my control arm when it happens, and the paper towels are soaked). I think the coolant boils close to the 3/4 mark on the temp gauge (at least it used to), so why is it coming out of the reservoir at 5/8? I can't make sense of it.

When I did my little test in the driveway (with my fan controls to the '0' mark), the coolant level would creep up in the reservoir, but would go down after some valve (thermoswitch triggered?) opened. After repeating that cycle a few times, it crept up and overflowed from the reservoir - it didn't seem like it would stop either, so I turned the fan on, and the level went down again, and was fine for another 10 mins of running. Could whatever valve controlling this be giving me trouble? Why is it leaking from the reservoir so much, and at random intervals??

Thanks for all of the suggestions; I appreciate everyone's help. I would love my car if it didn't have this problem...

-Randy

Reply to
Rand-E

Maybe a hose (the lower one) that can be to thin(old) and collapse at speed?

Reply to
Oso

Well I don't hace a/c so I don't know about the belt layout for that, but if it goes over the waterpump then I would think you'd likely not be slipping, but to be sure just grab the pulley on the water pump and try to move it up and down and front to rear, it should have NO movement in it at all. Mine was really bad when I discovered it, but I normally trravelled on city streets to and from work, but had to go across the city that day and hit the main highway. I was running for about 20 minutes before the highway and 10 mins on the highway. after it cooled and I again used the city streets, I ran for over an hour without trouble.

But I would check the pulley, costs nothing to check, on the other hand, how old is your termo-stat? That would be the device that opens when your car reaches temperture. It opens the connection between your rad and the coolent in your engine. If it's getting sticky, it might not be opening when it needs to all the time. If its's old it could be faulty and sticking, just not all the time. Pain in the ass to change, but if you have no other ideas, it's cheap if you can do it yourself, and it would give you the chance to refill the system with proper mix of antifreeze, after all the water you've been forced to dump in her, there's probably not much mix left.

Good luck.

Reply to
E

Oh yeah, the coolent system is pretty well sealed and the vent on the reserve tank offers the "path of least resistance", that's why it comes out there, otherwise it would be like we had in the 70"s, blowing hoses.

Just so you know why it only seems to leak there.

Reply to
E

I had the EXACT same problem with my last VW. I finally fixed it by unplugging a passage inside the head by pressurizing the system with an air compressor and banging on the head with a hammer.

A peanut sized piece of rust came out of the fiting where the small hose from the reservour to the head connects to....

Prior to that It would run for a day or two correctly and then started climbing and losing coolant. I replaced the water pump and added water via the top hose several times also without any improvement.

Do this test: engine cold. disconnect the small hose from the head. use and air pump to pressurize the system. watch ages of crap come out from the head.

The system is self bleeding if that hose is clear. its its plugged an air pocket WILL develop.

Reply to
Eduardo K.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. They really got me thinking.

I removed my thermostat to see what would happen. Went on a long trip today, and the temp ran just past the first mark (and dropped when I turned the heat on). Guess what? Coolant still leaked out.

Partway through the trip, I pulled over on the side of the highway to see how my car was doing. The reservoir was leaking out of the steam vent again (and pretty profusely). At least now I'm sure that it's not leaking BECAUSE it's hot. I could have easily drank the antifreeze leaking out - it wasn't even close to boiling (of course, I may have died of poisoning). While the car was still running, and leaking, I turned my environment controls to defrost, and the fan started, and the coolant level in the reservoir instantly dropped. I'm sure there's some sort of thermo-switch activated valve.

Anyways, I drove the rest of the trip with that fan on to keep the level as low as I can, and my new paper towel was soaked by the time I finished driving (approx one hour). BTW: my temp gauge never crossed the 1/4 mark.

I know a few things now:

1) My water pump definitely works 2) My thermostat worked (before I took it out) 3) My rad is fine.

Before, the car was only getting hot when I was low on coolant. I now see why I only had the high temperature issue an hour after driving on the highway. The t-stat worked fine, but when there wasn't enough coolant left... :(

I need to find out what is causing the coolant to back up out of the reservoir. I'll do my best to follow your suggestion Eduardo. Which hose are you referring to? (The 1/4" hose connecting the top rad hose to the reservoir, or the 1.5" hose connecting the reservoir to the engine?)

Thanks again, Randy

Reply to
Rand-E

Does it begin to sound like a bad head gasket? Were the radiator hoses very firm due to pressure in the cooling system? And you said that you had a new coolant bottle cap right? Any dark color in the coolant like maybe the oil cooler ruptured?

Reply to
One out of many Daves

The very small one (1/4" seems right) from the top of the reservoir. In my engine (gas, not tdi) that gets connected to the back of the cilinder head.

Reply to
Eduardo K.

Thanks again for the help,

Dave:

I can squeeze the rad hoses when the car is hot or cold - not overly difficult. I don't have a 'new' cap, but will asap (in fact, I have taken this one off so many times that it should be replaced anyway if it's supposed to pressure seal). There is oil in my coolant, but not an awful lot. I think it's from the oil cooler, because I can't feel pressure build-up in the reservoir after cold starts (have tried a few times), and don't see any bubbles indicating a head gasket leak. I heard the oil cooler rupture problem is quite common.

Eduardo K:

I blew on the 1/4" hose with my own lungs and plugged where it connects to the reservoir with my finger (just for fun). My cap was still on (as tight as she wanted to go), and my fluid came gushing out of the steam vent. I wasn't even blowing as hard as I could. I figure my cap is no good. I'm sure the pressure relief is supposed to be higher than I (or any other human) could put out.

I'll let you know if the new cap fixes the whole thing (I'm hoping and praying). I think E was right from the start...

Thanks once again everyone, Randy

Reply to
Rand-E

lol CHANGE THAT CAP NOW!!!

AND FIX THAT OIL IN THE COOLANT PROBLEM!!!

A4 hose and radiator clogged with oil so coolant could not flow causing overheating.

formatting link
A4 oil cooler that has ruptured (you can see the oil leaking out)
formatting link
first flush of coolant
formatting link
ugly isn't it...................did I scare you yet?

Reply to
One out of many Daves

Personally I think everyone should go out and replace their cap, they are relatively cheap and a real headache if they start causing problems (hardly anyone ever thinks of it) and since its pressure control item, they probably should be replaced on a regular basis anyway (how regular I don't know, but since you can get them new for under $20, every couple of years wouldn't be unreasonable). Hope that is the problem, although running with no therostat and still leaking, suggests some other problem. I ran with no therostat for 2 years and near had it overflow, and yes thats how long it took before any thought to check the stupid cap. You might want to remove the rad and have it tested for flow as well, my mechanic had that done first thing when I brought the car in (after the 2 years trying to figure it out myself, yes I'm a subborn bastard). Anyway keep us up to date and I'll keep racking my brain.

Reply to
E

Hi E(veryone)

E, given my recent experience, I think that replacing the cap is the first thing anyone should do when they encounter a similar problem (unless it's clear that the head gasket is gone). I am pretty sure the cap was the problem. I went out two days ago and bought a new cap. ($12 Canadian) The mechanic pointed out that mine didn't even have a rubber seal in it anymore. He was pretty confident that the new cap would fix the problem (although I wonder why he didn't think of the cap when I explained the problem to him...). I haven't seen anything leak out in the past couple days (although it almost never leaked in the city), and it now holds pressure. I won't know for certain until my next long trip (this weekend). I was so excited when I got the new cap that I almost went for a 4 hour drive just for fun....

Thank you all for your help - it is very much appreciated. I'll post after this weekend.

I was just wondering... my Jetta revs close to 3000 RPM at 110 km/h (67 mph) in 5th gear. Isn't that a bit high for a diesel tranny?

Extremely relieved, Randy

(PS: My reservoir probably only overflowed because my bowl is not original, and only holds about 2 L. "Made in Italy")

Reply to
Rand-E

That coolant looks like someone mixed it with nonVW Green coolant? Pea Soup?

:-)

Reply to
Peter Parker

hmmmm.....

Well, I did one round trip the weekend before last, and everything was fine - no sign of any coolant near my reservoir. I went again this weekend, and stopped for gas about 1.75 hours in (car was off for about

10 mins). As soon as I got going again, the temperature went up to 3/4 within a couple of minutes, and sure enough, coolant had leaked out of the reservoir by the time I pulled over. After I had pulled over and checked the reservoir, the temperature seemed to regulate okay the rest of the way (strange, because I didn't add any coolant or anything)

Then, on my way back home, the car was fine again for the first 1.75 hours. Then I got into the city, and the temperature all of a sudden went up again (it used to never have problems in the city...). I pulled over to see what was going on, and after I had confirmed that the reservoir lost coolant, and got into the car (50 seconds max), the temperature had dropped from 3/4 to 1/2.

Man.... I wonder if my thermostat IS faulty (and ruined the cap in the first place). I heard somewhere that about 1/5 of the thermostats sold have problems. I drilled two small holes in mine today to see if that makes any difference. Will try the trip again next weekend....

Why would it work one weekend, and not the next? It "seemed" like the cap had fixed it. I am puzzled.

=S

-Randy

Reply to
Rand-E

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.