Ballpark ign timing

Remove the big threaded plastic plug on top of the bell housing (just under the cooling water flange). Rotate crank with a wrench untill you see the 'O' mark. Use somekind of a bright marker to highlight it. Now adjust the timing... Or use the timing mark on the camshaft.

SFC

"Dioclese" schreef in bericht news:rLKdneOnTbdU2eXVnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com...

Sounds like one would have to note whether the #1 piston is on the compression cycle, or, the exhaust cycle when in fully "up" position for the piston. However, sounds like good way to get well into ballpark arena.

Backed off the distributor housing clockwise just a little. The pinging has diminished, but still there. Performance uphill, power, has increased as car isn't slowed so much. One part of one hill, the car actually slows 5 mph even with the pedal to the floor in high gear. Now, it holds speed. I travel same route everyday into town.

See if I can find the plastic plug now.

Just use the marks on the camshaft to get you into the ballpark area. Then use the trick with the screw driver through the spark plug hole. May I recommend that you used a pencil instead as I have seen heads damaged by people making mistakes with screw drivers & jamming them in the head.

If the marks aren't obvious I have seen where people put the flywheel on wrong.

Now excess deposits built up in the engine can help create pinging! I have seen deposits so thick on a 4 cyl engine that I was shocked that the engine was running. After a manual cleanup of the cylinder head at the machine shop, the mileage went up to 36 mpg highway on an Audi 4000 according to the owner. I wish mine was that good! lol

For camshaft timing and finding out TDC, I use Jim's method too. A plastic drinking straw should work too! There are also threaded whistles that make noise until you are at TDC. I have seen a flywheel with no marks too.

A tuner's trick to get exactly TDC with a degree wheel, is to bring it almost to TDC where it stops due to some locking device, set the degree wheel at '0' and then reverse the rotation of the crank bringing it up to where it stops again. Note the degree and divide by 2 and place the degree wheel at that spot = the computed '0'. Remove locking device and I guess in the case of no marks on the flywheel put the crank at the computed '0' and then mark the flywheel accordingly. Maybe with a small chisel and some white paint. Adjustable timing lights are usually needed to check the vacuum advance operation. Works better with no pistons installed and this is usually done for timing chained engines that need the offset gears to set up the camshaft timing perfectly!

JMHO but.............in your case........ Close enough is good enough since the camshaft timing will shift very slightly due to belt stretch or flex.

I looked and looked on top of the bell housing, no plastic plug. I can see the flywheel teeth, and the timing reference on the bell housing as mentioned and illustrated by the Bentley manual. There is no timing mark on the flywheel.

After reading your last reply, got me thinking about past history. The flywheel was replaced by a garage in VA some 8 years ago. They said it was warped beyond resurfacing. They were replacing the clutch.

Is there any harm in using a small cold chisel in making a mark on the flywheel, when I've determined where TDC is located?

The Bentley manual I have specifically mentions using a cold chisel to mark 0 and to mark 7.5 degrees. No it doesn't. I just read the section but it does have some pictures. I have used a dab of white paint for the mark I want. Look in the engine secton about replacing clutch.

TDC is TDC. It has nothing to do with compression or ignition cycle cycle of a 4 stroke engine. It is at TDC or close to it to ignite. It is at tdc again to suck some more fuel and air in to do the ignite again. But TDC is TDC.

As others menti>I looked and looked on top of the bell housing, no plastic plug. I can see

In Search Of! lol I don't believe that the FOX has a plug covering up the area for the flywheel '0' mark like the Golfs and Jettas. This is one reason I ask that the vehicle information is always in the Subject line to eliminate confusion. Like Dioclese he sees the window but can not find the mark on the flywheel. It might have a rubber plug but I think it is there to serve a different reason.

Maybe I will take a picture of the "window" on my trans along with the flywheel mark and post it for you to see on my website. Usually this mark is masked by rust and dirt. I may have painted mine years ago so hopefully it is still visible.

Here is a picture of the marks that you should see!

the dirt.......the engine has not had a shower lately! lol BTW my engine also has marks on the lower timing belt cover and the inside crankshaft pulley that also lines up TDC.

later, One out of many daves

'88 1.8l should be a 827 block, maybe the plug was never put back....

SFC

"dave AKA vwdoc1" schreef in bericht news:6JJek.15352$ snipped-for-privacy@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...

And we are talking about the transmission here? Or am I lost? 827 block?

Confused now, One out of many daves

Right. The Bentley manual illustration shows the opening, the flywheel teeth, the mark which is a simple line (not a circle or "0", and the reference protrusion mark on the bellhousing. Its completely open for viewing. No plug. Nothing was mentioned in the Bentley manual about this plug.

I'd like to mark the general area with white enamel paint, followed by a cold chisel mark (fine) for exact TDC. The paint for ease of getting to near TDC and finding the mark again. That is, if things go awry again.

You're right. Doesn't matter if it at full compression cycle, or, the exhaust valve closing after releasing gas. Its still TDC. The timing light only lights in the former case. So, it don't matter.

The Bentley manual says to go by the mark on the flywheel for ignition timing. So, that's my intention.

No, not about the transmission. VW used two types of engine blocks the

827typ and the 801 (>'86 it became 111typ). The 801 had a max capacity of 1.4l (polo's and low powered golf/scir). The 827 block ranged from 1.6 till 2.0l. It's just a type number. Because the 827typ uses the 020 gearbox (later also the 02A) it should have the plastic plug....

SFC

"dave AKA vwdoc1" schreef in bericht news:xBPek.8406$L snipped-for-privacy@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...

I can't speak for a Fox, but on a Golf/Jetta there are two marks on the flywheel. I'm pretty sure one is diamond shaped and the other is smaller and more circular. I think the diamond mark is either 6 or 8 degrees BTDC (where you are supposed to set it at idle), the circular mark is TDC and can be used if you have an adjustable timing light. Both are impressed into the flywheel. Seeing them if you don't know exactly what you are looking for is virtually impossible.

It may behoove you to take it to a VW specialty mechanic and ask him to do it in front of you since they will know exactly what it looks like and can show you.

If you insist on doing it yourself. Put the car in reverse, and push the car backward (or rotate the engine with a wrench) slowly until you can see the entire flywheel. This will at least help you see everything. Once you see them, you can try putting a dab of paint or white-out on the spot to help you see it with the flywheel. On my MR2, I can't see the timing marks at all with the engine running, I literally had to use the red paint technique -- even then it was hard to see.

On the Golf/Jetta there is a green plastic bolt with a clear plastic cap in the center. You cannot see the timing mark unless you remove the entire green plastic bolt, not just the center cap. The proper way to remove it is with a specialty socket, but you can also use a pair of ChannelLocks or something similar.

Good luck...

Well I think we are talking about the Fox inline engines and transmissions. ;-) Someone thought it was a Golf/Jetta with the plastic plug you need to remove for a better view of the flywheel timing marks, but it is different.

Link to the transmission timing "viewing window" here.

we can see that it is different than the Golf/Jetta timing "viewing window".

Hmmm so did the 1.5l engines use the 801 block or what? I think that was a gas 1.5l in my '75 Rabbit that got fantastic mileage like around 40mpg! I kinda miss that rusty thing! lol Not sure what I rebuilt in my '73 Audi Fox either since it has been too long!

For the 3rd time, there is no plastic plug present. Whether such existed, at one time or another, is moot. It doesn't matter in this case.

Am impressed with your primal knowledge of VWs, if that's what you're looking for in a response.

No, 827. 801 = I think that was a gas 1.5l in my '75 Rabbit that got fantastic mileage

I had that engine in my '77 scirocco with a audi 100 carb. Flat out it did just over 180km/h (112.5mph)

SFC