amsoil - good or bad?

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This also bring up another good question..... how is their gear oil, say the 90 weight. It was recommended (and used by) the mechanic at the Harley shop for aftermarket transmission fluid changes. Any opinions on this?
Fwed
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Dunno, but at some point I'd like to see a comparison between the Red Line, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Mobil 1 and (conventional petroleum) Pennzoil types. I've had folks recommend all of these at one point or another.
Gear oil is funny stuff and conventional oil tests don't always correlate well with real-world gear wear. --scott
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I would imagine temp has alot to do with how well it keeps things coated with that thin layer...
Fwed
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fweddybear wrote:

I have nothing to back this up but a gut feeling, but Redline Heavy Shockproof seems hard to beat for gear protection. It sticks to everything it touches like nobody's business. I am currently running it in my Porsche's transaxle; doesn't shift as well as MTL when cold but I figure the tranny needs all the help it can get (has a noisy bearing, and notoriously fragile R&P)
nate
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Most of the synthetics are very good about viscosity improvement, and they also have extremely good film strength. As a result, they tend to be better at keeping surfaces coated at temperature extremes.
The real question, though, is how the stuff holds up under extreme pressure with high shear levels. Shear strength is a big deal for gear oils. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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fweddybear wrote:

What does Harley recommend for the transmission.
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Amsoil is a ponzi scheme like Amway soap. It might work, but that isn't the IDEA behind it. The IDEA behind it is to sell inventory to some other sucker ( eh...associate ) so they can find a sucker ( eh...customer ) or another associate to fall into the same TRAP!
If it *works,* that's icing on the cake.
Lg
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Lawrence Glickman wrote:

WELL SAID. Ill ditto that! If you want to here how great it is just ask someone who sells it.
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Ok, I don't SELL Amsoil but I use it, and I think it's great. I never had anyone beating down my door to sell me more product, I don't have someone hounding me to join or purchase more product, I order it directly from the .com. I use Series 2000 0w-30 year round and Amsoil oil filters. Change at Amsoil's rec'd intervals, 6mo/filter 1yr/oil/filter. Been doing this for years no problem, and I can safely say that if nothing else, my winter starts are like butter now compared to the old dino oil (where the car may or may not have started). Just my $0.02.
-GV
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Lawrence Glickman wrote:

They may be a high pressure sales organization, but I doubt they come close to being a real ponzi scheme. I doubt that there are many people on this forum that could provide a meaningful and accurate answer his qustion "how is their 90 weight oil" about any oil, Amsoil or otherwise.
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Bub, that is an uninformed, offensive and insulting statement. As a former Amway distributor, it was a standard tenet of the organization of which I was a part that in order to build a successful business it was *absolutely necessary* to build, grow and maintain a retail customer base. Merely adding downline distributors without an equivalent or greater focus on retail would result in an unreliable and unstable business, and was an all but guaranteed recipe for failure, not to mention mention a poor profit/income model. I serviced customers who were over-joyed to find out that I was a distributor because their former distributor had moved on*** and they *wanted* product and didn't know where else to get it.
***(Moved, or quit the business when they realized that it was too much like WORK when what they really wanted was to get rich without actually DOING anything.)
"Inventory loading" had been discouraged and eliminated before I became involved in the business. The "upline direct" was *required* to repurchase any unused and saleable inventory (if they had any, despite policies against it) from any distributor who wished to discontinue, and, failing that, the corporation would repurchase the inventory (and sanction the "direct" who failed to do so). That old "My friend's second cousin's brother knew a feller that tried that thang and he's got a basement fulla that stuff" has been bovine excrement for a long, long time.
Now, if you want to argue that MLM business model tends to attract unscrupulous and/or lazy people who think that they can get rich quick without really working at it, and who try to "shortcut" the business model by focusing their efforts on "sponsoring" others (that they hope will do the real work *for* them) and thereby doom themselves and their downline) to failure, then I would have to agree wwith you.
If you also wanted to argue that there were some of the same type of people who also focused more of their efforts on selling independently produced "tools" (books, tapes, functions, not re-saleable to retail customers outside the "system") as their primary income stream (which possibly *could* be perceived as a "Ponzi scheme", or close enough), to the near exclusion and detriment of the *real* business model, then I would have to agree with that, too.
MLM is a legitimate business model and there are many good companies selling many good products using it. People who like Amsoil or "Amway"*** products and want to buy them are entitled to their opinion, as are you entitled to your opinion if you *dislike* a particular product, but to paint them all in a defamatory color of illegality is either misinformed, uneducated or patently dishonest.
***(The Amway company no longer exists in the same form as it once did. Technology in general, and the Internet in particular, have led to a reformation of business practices and marketing. In addition, the advent of the Internet which has facilitated widespread communication which could not be "controlled" by unscrupulous people within the various "motivational systems" has led to their exposure and, in some cases, prosecution, resulting in a decrease in abuses [some of which were known to exist as far back as 1982 though pressure from the ADA board inhibited resolution] and a re-focus on the core business which is, and was always supposed to be, selling consumable products to customers.)
Disclaimer: I resigned my Amway distributorship in 1999 due to disagreements with "Upline" "leaders" and their abuses of the "system". I am not soliciting or offering sponsorship in any MLM opportunity to any reader. I am currently an inactive participant (read: glorified customer) in something which is "just like Amway, only better" which provides a certain convenince in shopping. The income, general business knowledge and financial management techniques gained as an Amway distributor enabled me to start and run a different business with less "people" contact and at this time I am semi-retired (and under 50). Just as in almost any other [legitimate] business, you aren't going to "make it to the top" without an extreme amound of dedication and effort, but you *can* make a good income...as good as you're willing to work for, anyway...and it can open your eyes and provide a [financial] stepping-stone to new opportunities.
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*former distributor* because you were scammed, just like the rest of the people I know personally who became involved with that organization.
Two words:
Ponzi Scheme
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former
No, not "scammed". I understood how the system works and was in no way fool enough to think that I would "get rich overnight". I did the work and sold merchandise to retail customers as well as sponsoring other distributors. My disagreement was with those people who were abusing the system, spending more of their efforts trying to push their "tools" instead of teaching people the correct way of doing business, lining their own pockets with money and encouraging people to go into debt to buy these "tools" without teaching them how to strike a profitable balance and manage their expenses. It's a very short-sighted practice.
If you were to correlate it with auto repair, think of a repair franchise in which the franchise kept pushing the store owner to keep buying tools to fix cars and keep getting other people "in" and buying tools, but never actually taught them how to properly fix cars. A business run like that will continually chew through an enourmous amount of people, leaving them disatisfied, in debt and disillusioned while the people selling the tools make a nice bit of dough.
I was unaware of this aspect when I first started but I'm not stupid. I knew that people were making money this way. After a while I realized that there was a problem but wasn't quite sure what it was. I knew how to calculate the costs for production of these things and estimate the profits. I started asking questions and learned that there had been a running battle for some years between those who were making big profits from the independent tool system and those who wanted to see the business run as it was supposed to be. Eventually I joined that battle. When those who were well entrenched in the corrupted tool system began trying to cut off my access to others who wanted to keep the system pure, and attempting to subvert communications within my organization and with other like-minded organizations, I knew I had to take drastic action. I didn't have the resources to fight a protracted legal battle (and there have been a number of those, though they try to kep them hidden) so the only option was to cut off *their* resources. I and my entire organization resigned, and others with whom we were in contact followed suit. The wholesale defections put a huge dent in the income on which they were depending and tipped the scales out of their favor. No longer being supported by the masses of lower-level people consuming their "product" which could not be sold outside of the system, their organizations imploded and collapsed, destroying their private little "inside" business and exposing their ruse.
The business model itself is not a problem. The problem lies with who unfairly try to tip the scales in their own favor, making the largest part of their income off the backs of those they are ostensibly trying to help, and leaving them to try to learn how to *really* be successful on their own. When, for the most part, those multitudes who are newly recruited into the business have no previous business experience, only a few will figure it out in time to prevent their going broke. The rest will leave, convinced that it was all a scam and never realizing that they *could* have been successful had they been given the correct guidance. And that gives the entire business a bad name, hurts those of us who try to do business in an ethical and responsible manner, and hurts those who would otherwise discover that there *are* ways of becoming successful outside of the 9-5 employee route.
A mechanic needs tools, but if he spends all of his time and money playing with his tools and buying new ones but never fixing any cars, he won't stay in the mechanic business very long.
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Amsoil is, actually a "pyramid" scheme - a scheme in which you must continuously expand the base in order to make any money.
A "Ponzi Scheme" - named after a Boston investment scammer - intentionally pays off earlier investors with money paid in by later investors in an attempt to make the investment seem viable.
In a "Ponzi", there was never any intention to become profitable.....only to skim off money from investors prior to the whole thing collapsing..
In a "pyramid", it is actually possible to make money by growing the business.
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* wrote:

Not really. Ponzis and Pyramids are actually quite similar, that that both involve money from later "investors" being used to pay earlier ones and both are equally illegal. The difference is in the structure for moving the money. A pyramid has a defined structure for payments between individuals - think of the chain letter scheme. A Ponzi scheme usually involves one individual who collects money from many by promising absurd investment returns. The pyramid collapses when no new investors are found. The Ponzi collapses when either no new investors are found or the early investors begin to demand their principal back.
Don't confuse those two swindles with so-called multi-level-marketing where goods with some value are exchanged for money...Mary Kay, Tupperware, etc., are all long-time MLM's where each layer gets a cut and you make money by taking a commission from the sales activities of others as well as selling in your own name.
Pyramids can be gussied up with worthless merchandise to make them appear to be a legal MLM, but you have to look at the facts of the situation.
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Actually, when you think about it, many businesses are pyramids- grunt-level employees at the base then various smaller levels of management up to the owner/CEO who makes the most money...disregarding the stockholders in public corporations.
The difference in so-called "Pyramid Schemes", to simplify the FTC definition of illegal vs. legal pyramids, is that the legal ones sell real products and/or services but pay no remuneration for recruiting. An illegal pyramid pays people to recruit new people (out of the new recruits' sign-up fees) with little or no attention to marketing legitimate products/services.
There are many companies that sell "worthless" merchandise without bothering to go to the effort of setting up a MLM program. Every now and then I happen to catch one of those infomercials on TV and am astounded at the blatant rip-offs...ever see the one with the little bit of foil (for $19.95) that supposedly boosted your cell phone signal when you stuck it to the back of your phone?
I'd rather see the gov't stop wasting their (our) money with this futile "war on drugs" and put it toward stopping these rip-off artists with their phoney (pun intended) products who are stealing hundreds of millions from gullible consumers. Legalize recreational pharmaceuticals and tax them and reduce the taxes the rest of us have to pay on booze and cigarettes...yeah, like that's gonna happen.
I don't care if my mechanic smokes a little dope on week-ends...as long as he isn't high when he's fixing my car.
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Yes, like that is going to happen...
I don't really care what others want to do either, except when it effects me, or mine. Just like drunks, pot heads and drug addicts quickly reach the point where there is no line between weekend use and everyday use. Eventually nothing else maters except using their drugs... That is where the problems start.
An Oregon lawmaker Kelley Wirth indicted on meth possession charge. http://www.katu.com/salem/story.asp?ID 767
NM Judge Arrested For Cocaine http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006730.html
Lawyer Arrested in Drug Sweep http://www.witntv.com/home/headlines/1121911.html
Lawyer suspended over drug use http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/03/04/iraq.usa.shirt.reut /
Las Vegas Police: Officer Arrested, Faces Felony Drug http://www.drugwar.com/plasvegasdrugcop.shtm
Police Officer Arrested in Pine Bluff Drug Raid http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0206/299615.html
Police Officer Arrested For Falsifying Oxycontin Prescriptions http://www.ryar.org/news/08-15-05.html
Clackamas County Sheriff's deputy, David Verbos, 36, is accused in the indictment of holding-up the Mid Valley Bank located in Wilsonville as well as armed robberies at various area stores including the pharmacies at the McMinnville Bi-Mart and Wilsonville Target stores as well as a quick-cash outlet in Newberg. http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_020806_news_deputy_indicted.ac3f549.html
Sheriff Sergeant Arrested and Fired for Drug Theft http://www.montcnty.com/index.php?page=powell
Oklahoma City Police Officer Arrested On Drug Complaints http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&idu219
Union police officer arrested on drug charge http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S )32219&nav=0RaPWFEQ
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That so broadens the definition of a Pyramid scheme that it becomes meaningless

Not knowing how the payments flow in your example it would seem to be a pyramid gussied up to look like a MLM.

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as
So, you figure the dope that the dope smokes Sunday night is totally cleared from his system on Monday morning, and has absolutely no effect on his motor or reasoning skills while he is working on the brakes of the vehicle in which your wife and kids ride????
Brave man!!!!!
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No worse than the bonehead who goes out and gets puking drunk and is so hung-over he can barely remember his own name. You are always going to have people who abuse something whether it it a legally obtained substance such as alcohol or prescription narcotics, or [currently] illegally obtained pharmaceuticals. There is no way of stopping it short of outlawing every single substance that offers a physiological/psychological effect that people seek, and watching every single person 24 hours a day in a strictly controlled police state. And who will watch the watchers (to steal a phrase, and to refer to the previously posted links to articles referencing illegal actions by law enforcement officers)?
Allow legal retail purchases just like alcohol and cigarettes at reasonable prices and your illegal market goes the way of the bootleggers, sure, there are still a few of those around but it isn't really that big a problem. Not only could the massive amounts of tax dollars being spent on investigations and housing prisoners whose only crime is smoking a little dope or snorting some coke be put to a better use (like back in our pockets), but the additional tax revenue gained would offset and allow decreases in other current revenue sources (like personal income taxes and real estate taxes).
We already have laws in place to penalize those whose impaired behavior presents a danger to others, they just need to be enforced even-handedly across the board.
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