Consumer Reports Jan '06 Issue Proves My Point

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Consumer Reports Jan '06 Issue Proves My Point on Tire Profiles.
Amazingly some of these utility type vehicles are being fitted with -55 and -50 tire profiles. For you out there who don't know what this
specification means, I am referring to the new low profile tires, usually fitted to oversized wheels.
When you see a car or truck that looks like its riding on its rims, it has those abdominal low profile tires installed. Its a pure gimmick on the part of the auto makers.
A neat side effect is instead of $35 tires, your replacement is going to cost about $150 or more.
How does C.R. prove my point? Easy. Every one of these cars rode "noisy". That's because the stiff sidewalls of low profile tires telegraph all the noise into the cabin. Also, because there's little air cushion, the rides are harsh.
Not to mention its impossible to wear a wide imprint tire evenly. Its also impossible to maintain alignment and avoid cupping, that's why cars which are perfectly aligned start pulling hard to the right after the tires wear into a pattern, then bounce like crazy. This NEVER happened when tires were -90, -80 or -75. When tires were -70 or less, that's when all Hell broke loose and cars no longer where the comfortable conveyences we had grown to love. They're all bastards now, one and all and its due 100% to low profile tires.
Here's another proof and its an unrefutable foolproof proof. All airplane tires, from the littleist Piper Cubby to the great big Airbus Double Decker all have -90 to -100 tires. If low profile tires were so good, they'd put them on airplanes (and it would save them precious space in the wheel well). They don't, so that proves it, once and for all.
Do not throw your money away by buying cars with those stupid tires. Boycott all makers until they get the point and start putting real rubber back on our cars.
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What point... did they liken them to the one on top'a your haid?

yawn... snip!

Who buys $35 tires? And where can you GET $35 LT's?
I dont, I wont and the only time I ever DID was when I was a kid without a job.

Yeah! Back to them 6.50 - 16's!!!
And Doughnut white sidewalls
But, say... back then, didnt they all wear out the tread at 25,000 anyway?

Say again? You mean like .. it's bogus?

uh.. you forgot NASCAR tires

Or not... just let me have the last word on "dizum.com", here!
Then we can boycott him.
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says...

Those are tires. Those are rubber rim protectors. ------------- Alex
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:40:06 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio

They been doing stuff like that for years and years. The 91 GTA I had came with Z rated Goodyear's. Then California passes a law which puts liability on any tire shop who changes from the "originally installed equipment". The tires, installed were over $200 each, and that does not include the fact that to rotate them, they had to be taken off the rims because of the different rim size between front and rear. And, without tearing up the streets, the compound was so soft I got about 10 months out of each set. I finally found a place that was willing to downgrade the rating and stayed with the replacements.
Kinda reminds me of buying a printer for $49 and then having to pay $35 for each ink cartridge.
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Nomen Nescio wrote:

Apples and oranges. There are synergistic huge savings in using high profile tires on aircraft: (1) The tire/wheel combined weight is less with high profile tires (of a given tread OD) - weight is much more of a premium on aircraft than on automobiles. (2) The tire/wheel combined moment of inertia is less for a high profile tire (of a given tread OD). This does two things: (a) The shock to the tire when it contacts the runway on landing is less to spin the tire up in a matter of milliseconds, and (b) The landing gear can be designed to be less bulky (lighter) to absorb the shock of the tire contacting the runway on landing due to (a). This in turn leads to even more weight savings than *just* the tire/wheel combination (hence my previous comment about the effects being synergistic in light of the premium put on weight savings in aircraft design).
While similar effects are seen on automobiles, they are orders of magnitude less than on aircraft. On cars, people are willing to pay the penalty (higher unsprung weight, decreased acceleration due to higher moment of inertia, harsher ride) for some reason. On aircraft, there is a significant overall cost and payload capacity impact - not so with the automobile (and in automobiles, you do get improved steering response with low profile - not a factor with aircraft; aesthetic improvement - real or imagined - may also play a part - not a factor with aircraft).
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

My 6.50x16, Firestone Champions on my 1940 Royal Coupe ride smooth! I agree with you on the profile. I am going to change to a 75 series tire on my wife's 2005 PT Cruiser Convertible when the originals go south.
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OK... now that you have decided what kind of tires I like, can please tell me my favourite colour and what my favourite dish are...... I've been waiting for someone to tell me oh, so many things for such a long time.......
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NO! PLEASE! NO! NOT AGAIN Nomen!

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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:40:06 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio
Sorry couldn't resist so here goes

The "gimmick" as you refer to it, is required to allow clearance for larger disc brakes and components while retaining a wheel small enough to not impair acceleration or carry undue inertia. Everyone wants a car that will stop on a dime, offer razor sharp steering, snappy acceleration from a rest and most importantly "look like a race car". Hence lower profile tires on larger rims

Not if you are able to fit smaller rims and tires on your vehicle

I do believe that you are confusing the speed ratings requirements with air cushion. " Z" rated tires require a much stiffer sidewall than an "S" rated tire. Sports car performance = sports car tires.

this is news to me

Might want to think back, Think of the Goodyears that came stock on the Chrysler "K" cars.... I could give countless other examples (continental Contacts on some VW's etc, etc, etc.

You give too much credit to the tires. Don't forget the changes in suspension and engine tuning. Most car buyers at the moment have a hard on for the "European Engineering" Not realizing that European cars handle like they do because their roads are shit, Europeans are willing to trade a louder, stiffer ride and more money in their cars in exchange for a car that can take an unmarked 90' corner at 60 MPH and come to a sudden stop at the other side when a farmer with muck covered lights backs out into the road

People already are doing that. Take a look at the dealers sales of SUV's and Pickup Trucks. Most do not come with 40 series tires.
Having said that.............. I partially agree My Vehicles have 70 Series tires
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wrote:

Most American surface roads are turning to shit, due to neglect and lack of maintenance. Additionally, heavy truck traffic is destroying the interstates.

Yeah,right, and that never happens here. You ever hear of James Dean?
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On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 05:21:22 GMT, "Jorge W. Arbusto"

Interstates have shoulders, proper crowns and often correctly banked curves. Just to let you know, Heavy truck traffic is present on european Motorways/Autoroutes/Autobahns etc.

You might wish to reread what I posted. You are much more likely to find a shoulder on an American side road than you are on an European side road. and yes I did hear of James Dean. The fellow who died OVER 50 years ago! There have been some improvements in the highway network in the last 1/2 century
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On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, joe schmoe wrote:

The Interstate that I commute on does not have a proper crown -- water pools on it every time it rains. This is a newly widened road with a new surface across the entire road width.

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As a civil engineer, I can say that (without seeing the road and the circumstances) it certainly sounds like the overlay across that road was done incorrectly.
I know here in NC the regional offices I work with are adamant that if you overlay you must have your 2% crown... and if not you have to MAKE it have a 2% crown!! :)
J

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I don't know too much about Europe, but I can assure you that UK roads are extremely smooth. Of course they don't have much frost to content with, but their traffic is very heavy on many roads. I did a bus trip in Belgium, France, Switzerland in '79 and the roads were excellent. I doubt they've gone downhill since then. I also know that the road surface from Canada down the I5 into California always has significant worn out sections that make a hell of a noise. In the late 80s in northern California the I5 right lane was so worn out all traffic was driving in the left lane.
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The surface of the road is only one factor. American cars are made to handle American roads (including dirt & Gravel roads.
European roads may be smooth (though there are many here in the East Midlands (UK) who would disagree with that), but as I wrote earlier, Very little educated, traveled professional thought went into the construction of the road networks. Shoulders, Banking, crowns, drainage, visibility, adequate guard rails, ample passing places, etc, etc, etc.
A smooth surface does little to help you after you're careening down a cliff face after hydroplaining across a road, through a farcical guardrail after skipping over the 4" leaf covered curb at the edge of the lane.
However the ride to that point was probably smoother than the I95
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Traction on those smooth UK surfaces are another subject. I agree they are slippery, I'm always cautious over there. Here in Canada we add a pea gravel type of wear coat on many roads, great for traction on ice. Of course there are always those dummies who don't drive according to the road conditions. We usually wave to them in the ditch as we pass by. <:)
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Manufacturers make and sell what people buy, plain and simple. They wouldn't be there if there wasn't a market. Sensibility doesn't go very far in the American market place. Remember Studebaker & Rambler?
PoD

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says...

Not quite. No auto maker puts those on their trucks.

True, but you generally get better performance.

You also get better turn in. It's a trade off. You give up some noise to get better reaction to steering inputs.

BS. If you keep them properly inflated they will wear evenly.

Again, BS. My Dodge Omni GLH Turbo ran on 50 series tires and I never had any wear or alignment issues. Since the car was so light, even fast wearing high performance tires lasted a long time. I had that car for over 110k miles, so I have plenty of experience with it.

Tires are only part of the what makes ride quality. So you can't blame the tires entirely.

What a stupid statement. If you haven't noticed airplanes only use their tires in a straight line or when they turn very slowly.

Nothing is stopping you from buying the kind of tires you like. I'm sure there are lots of folks that would more than happy to trade your high performance tires for the crap you prefer to ride on.
----------------- Alex
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Alex Rodriguez wrote:

I'm sure

high
I know when a prospective buyer comes to the car lot and sees a vehicle that has low profile tires on it, the first assumption is that a kid owned the vehicle previously and they don't even take a second look.
the only people that buy lowered vehicles or vehicles with big rims and low profile tires are kids,and usually vehicles like that have had a stereo system that a kid installed and messed with the wiring and they have electrical issues.
in other words it is *MUCH* easier to sell a vehicle with those crap tires that you speak of rather than one that some kid monkeyed with.
vehicles don't come that way for a reason.
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...
Consumer Reports is so utilitarian that they probably think we should all be driving one model of car fit to some generic class of needs. I presume they allow for at least a few different classes, although I gave up reading them for automotive purposes, where there is some form to go with the function. Toaster reviews, maybe.
They don't like convertibles, they don't like sunroofs, I am not surprised that they don't like low profile tires.
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