Re: G M is still number one

As every GM stockholder was aware, the reason GM created the Saturn as a whole separate division was to determine if a small car could be built profitable in the US with American labor and parts. Once it was established
it could be, Saturn was to be included in GMs economies of scale to lower the build costs..
mike hunt

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It was so much more than that. It wasn't a division, it was created as a wholly owned company. It was not only to try to build a profitable small car in the US, it was also an experiment with materials, production techniques, and (most importantly) revolutionary union agreements. As someone who's been to Spring Hill and who bought in 100% to the Saturn concept, I can say you are wrong that the 'plan' was to be included in GM's economies of scale. Saturn, in fact, fought it strongly. The failed LS series cars were forced on them. ... well, we all know Chevy argued 100% against the formation of saturn.
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I know, that but like I said every stockholders new it would be folded into the rest of the corporation at some point. It would be foolish not to do so.
mike hunt

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With that kind of mindset does anyone, other than Mikey, think GM can survive to the '07 contract talks without going into bankruptcy? I just don't see them reforming themselves to the extent necessary to make it.
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Jon Patrick wrote:

Actually GM BEGGED for years for a bigger car than the SL series as their customers did not have a car to more up into (the customers DID NOT want to move into another GM brand car-to GM's dismay). The LS series was too little-too late.
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No argument. The LS was forced on Saturn, but the management at Saturn begged (as you said) for a car like the Accord for their SL buyers to upgrade into. THat being said, they strongly resisited the standardized GM platform that became the LS. I'm not even sure Saturn's engineering staff designed it, or if it was done by a GM staff and handed to them. jp
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Actually the opposite is true. It never returned it's original investment for GM and they HAD to roll into the regular GM to use the same frames, engines etc for economies of scale. The only ones who made money were the dealers who got to sell cars at MSRP with the no-haggle policy and sales territories such that there was not another Saturn dealer for many miles.
Mike Hunter wrote:

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Hogwash, the whole investment was amortized several years ago. If you were a stockholder you would know that to be the case. All of the new companies that have started to sell vehicles in the US have limited their territory as well so that dealers can be profitable in that very competitive business. Ford most likely as three dealerships for every Toyota dealership with whom they must compete
mike hunt

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