Solution to gas prices: Nationalization

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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


Umm - OK - maybe someone much smarter than I will explain the point of your statement: "The cost of raw material has not changed for a billlion [sic] years, only the cost of retrieving and processing it. Unlike you [sic] loaf of break [sic], oils [sic] is just sitting in the ground whereas a farmer must plant and grow wheat at some expense."
You *appear* to be saying that there is something unique about the cost of getting oil out of the ground that makes it insignificant and/or impervious to inflation, while the farmer's cost of planting and harvesting wheat are more real and are more subject to inflation.
If that was not your point (which, if it is, is void of all logic), maybe someone besides you (to illustrate that your point was obvious to anyone, besides yourself of course, with more than an ounce of intelligence) will explain (1) exactly what the point of your statement was, and (2) how much perfect sense your statement makes in explaining why the dollars spent by a farmer taking the steps necessary to be able sell or harvest his wheat are different in nature than the dollars it takes to get the oil out of the ground, and why both cannot equally be considered costs of getting the raw material to the next step, which is processing of said raw material to turn it into a useful/sellable product.
Anybody?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

OK - I'm seeing one point that I may have momentarily missed, but even with that accounted for, it doesn't make your point any more valid. I guess what you're saying is that the farmer's up front costs of planting have no counterpart in "creating" the oil. IF that is your point, it is moot. There are costs for "manufacturers" of both bread and oil - all subject to inflation - involved in getting it into a sellable form. The fact that the relative size of those costs at the different sub-stages prior to the point of consumer end-user purchase does not change the fact that there is a total bottom-line inflation-sensitive cost for getting both products to market.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill., the point of the original question was long ago lost. It has nothing to do with wheat, oranges, apples or how much profit a supermarket makes on watermelon. I never denied they have costs, were subject to inflation, or that oil companies should make a profit. There was a question about oil being sold for its "true value" and I questioned what that was. I'm sure most everyone has long ago lost interest in the subject. You missed the subject. There is no point in trying to go back to refine anyone's point about anything. Good luck with the farm and I hope your crop does well this year and you sell it for a large profit. Your farm subsidy check went to David Letterman anyway.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

LOL. But......., did any country ever invade a sovereign nation to *help* them harvest their wheat and fix it so they "helped" (for a reasonable price) for the next few decades? Can wheat really inspire that sort of altruism?
http://www.cbc.ca/onthemap/fullpage.php?idI
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F.H. wrote:

Moonbat alert.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

That was quite an expose on the CBC. Only an ultra-liberal would be so dishonest as to not be able to distinguish between a wall built by a communist country for the purpose of keeping its citizens from escaping to freedom from a wall built by another country to prevent illegal aliens from, among other things, stealing services that they never paid for in lieu of going thru a legal process to become citizens. Truly amazing and disgusting.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

You have me confused with someone else.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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The cost of oil is the same. The cost of getting it has changed. You brought wheat into the conversation. We're taling oil prices here.

Never was the point. You long ago missed the point.

Why do yo keep bringing wheat into a discussion about the "true value" of oil. Go pack to the post before mine, where a poster said oil was not selling for its "true value" Keep the wheat and bread in the supermarket. Guess your argument is a "straw man" :)
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wrote in message

Those whose soil the pumps are located. OPEC was created so as to ensure that the low cost producers could control/manipulate prices to their collective benefit. I've often wondered what the result would be if the US decided that the Yanky dollar was no longer going to be an International currency (ie. could only be spent in the US) by issuing new script.

Well almost. The Middle East lifting cost was about $0.25 /barrel in the early '70's and on the assumption that we are still drawing from the same fields the cost shouldn't have changed much. However, new fields have have their own unique costs and are sustantially higher. Like all things, as prices rise, in this case crude oil, new sources become economically viable. In this sense we will probably never really exhaust our supply of carbon based fuels.

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Yes, they are socialist. They are so socialist that they border on being communist, if they are not actually communist. They do not admit to being communist, but the economic structure clearly has communist underpinnings.
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Guess it depends on your idea of socialism. The answer is compared to many democratic countries, yes. However, they are quickly moving to Castro style communism. Chavez is already starting to close down media outlets who disagree with him.

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Gasoline has always been cheap there. Premium was equivalent to about $0.30 per gallon when I lived there years ago. (There were three grades of gasoline then, and the cheap one was about $0.07 per gallon, IIRC) This does not represent any world economy prices, but is a bone thrown to the people.
Hugo Chavez is a bit left of socialist. He is moving toward communism as quickly as he can, but still calls it socialism. (There is a BIG difference)
The currency today is about Bs2000 to the dollar (roughly) but you can easily get Bs 3500 for your dollars on the black market, maybe even 5000. When I lived there it was Bs 4.27 to one US dollar.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Indeed, but you wouldn't know it from the media portrayal stateside.

Interesting.
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This, of course, has nothing to do with communism but everything with economic mismanagement.
Turkey had nothing like a 'socialist regime' yet the Turkish pound collapsed to a small value. When I was there a few years ago it was 5 million to the pound. The currency (and, I hope, the economy) has been reformed and there are now about TRL 2.6 per GBP 1.00.
DAS
For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
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< snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix> wrote in message
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George Orwell wrote:

Not competing is precisely the goal of the Oil conglomerates. Thats why they shut down refineries, buy out independents and support the invasion of Iraq. Note were not *pumping* much oil out of Iraq but Saddam was. And he quit using the dollar, switching to the Euro, thereby signing his own death certificate.
The "dust bin" is in the eye of the beholder and corporate America (for the most part) doesn't care squat about the citizens or their culture.
Third world dust bin would be just fine with certain cliques of very influential people.
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Last I heard 200,000 barrels of Iraqi oil disappears every day into the Halliburton coffers.
A
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They had 12 cent a gallon gas before Hugo Chavez.
You cannot artificially lower the price of a commodity without the costs squirting out somewhere else. Ever wonder why Venezuela has always been so poor?

A repeat of the other instances where we imposed price controls throughout our history? You are either very young, have a short memory or have zero knowledge of history.
Or you're a troll.

The ignorance and hubris of this paragraph is absolutely breathtaking. This has GOT to be a joke post.
--
Tegger


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ALL of his posts are joke posts. He just doesn't realize it.
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Government-built cars. Hmmm. Let me see...
Yugo Lada Dacia Trabant Zaporozhets FSO Moskvich
Don't those names just stir your blood and awaken fond memories of night cruises past the bright lights, loud music and pretty girls in front of the Kremlin? Va-va-voom, Tovarishch!
--
Tegger


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Tegger wrote:

So, how is the great Laissez-Faire theory working out since Reagan? For the middle class, I mean.
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