GM, Ford, Chrysler vs. Toyota, Nissan, Honda production

More dependance upon foriegn oil and more pollution. The reality is that even if the engines are equally as clean, the emissions are PPM, so if you burn 4 times as much gas per mile in the SUV, it pollutes four times as much per hour as the hybrid, even though they test the same at the smog check.

Imagine the following - one hybrid with a 1 inch tailpipe. 60mpg. A 7 liter V10 SUV with dual exhaust and 2 inch tailpipes.

Under the current method, they measure PPM. Flow and rate is not a factor(oops) - so in theory, if the thing blows out five times the volume of exhaust during hard acceleration that the Pruis does, well, that's no different as the PPM measurements at ldle are the same.

I wonder what they would do if the tests were changed to mg per minute. (probably scream and claim foul and get some bill passed - lol)

But, for a passenger car, a hybrid engine is neat. Less expensive repairs, less weight up front(better front/rear weight distribution), less gas used, and same price. Same power up hills, too, and ZERO shifting lag as the engine doesn't have to wind up to optimum power RPM when you go from 3rd to 4th at highway speeds(and also where most pollution comes from - during high stress periods after you shift to a higher gear or accelerate)

EPA is 55-60 in real-world driving tests so far. Also, the Pruis has features and trim on it comparable to the Camry LE. It basically needs nothing and all of the options are things like GPS and handds-free cell phone and self-parking AI(Japan only so far) and such.

Compared to a Camry LE 4cyl, it's virtually identical in price.

Oh. There's also a $1000 tax incentive as well, so it's really the same price(usually there's a $1000 or so off on the Camry as well from time to time)

You've convinced me. You should buy one.

Ed

(snip)

Nobody wanted the crap that Ford and GM tested but they were too arrogant that grasp that their shitty engineering was the cause. Now that they have a Polish blueprint in the form of the Prius and Civic Hybrid to work from, it's no surprise they're scrambling to get on onboard.

JD

Remember, though, that this is the same Ford and GM that couldn't copy a fine diesel design(Mercedes) and turned a whole generation off in the process.

The same GM that can't seem to make the 'vette a mid engine OHC "real" sports car?

GM knows muscle cars and land-yachts, but couldn't innovate to save its rear end. Always copying and playing catch-up with the rare exception(usually from the very high-end market)

In message , Crunchy Cookie writes

Toyota, the third largest manufacturer in the world, is Japanese and is wholly owned.

By fine diesel design, do you mean the slow, noisy, black smoke cloud emitting

300SD? Or maybe the 240D? If so, it hard to imagine GM making anything more pathetic. I still remember my office mate giving me a ride in his MB diesel. He was actually proud that the battery cost $120. The thing was a joke. They might have made good taxi's in Europe, but they were horrid cars for the US. It did have nice seats which were quite enjoyable until he started up the clatterbox of an engine. I have diesel farm tractors that were quieter than that piece of junk. The Oldsmobile diesel may have put a wooden spike through the US market for diesels, but the MB diesel certainly didn't help it any. And then there were the awesome Rabbit diesels - have you ever seen one consume it own oil supply and self destruct? I've seen it three times - which is pretty incredible considering the few that were sold in the US. Oh yeah, lets not forget the Peugeot diesels that were sold here......GM didn't really need much help killing diesels. Diesels are successful in Europe because of the distorted fuel taxes in Europe. Until we have something like that here, diesels will remain a niche market vehicle. However, as far as I can tell the current VW TDIs are not offensive. I even considered buying one, until I remembered they were a VW product. My family has had enough experience with VWs so that I know better (1 Audi Coupe, 1 Jettta, 1 Passat).

Regards,

Ed White

Who owns Toyota? It has stockholders just like GM, but I doubt most of them are Americans. Heck, I am not even sure most GM stockholders are American anyomore. See

From : How many Toyota Motor Corporation shareholders are there globally?

As of March 31, 2002, there were approximately 276,449 shareholders of record.

Ed

And it took GM to figure out a worthy application for that...

I haven't seen tests for the new one, but noone in the press could reproduce stated mileage of the old Prius...

In message , C. E. White writes

You don't live in England where the fuel tax is horrendous.

But here in New England, Rhode Island in particular we chip in nearly $.60 a gallon in taxes alone. To those of us in the U.S., that's horrendous.

How England and most other European countries got away with the tax scam you have is beyond me. If they tried that here you'd see us lynching politicians in the streets.

European g'ments are experts at taxation. How about a tax on furnishings? Or TVs? How else to pay for socialism?

Chas Hurst

snip

If 20% of Brits had no health-care insurance, there would be lynching over there. You get what you pay for.

It's more like 40% here. There was a 27% rise in the cost of health insurance yet the teachers here (who average $50K for a 9 month school year) are striking because the school board asked them to split the difference. I can't really blame the teachers for striking but it doesn't address how obscenely profitable the healthcare industry is. As for the lynchings, if the corporate republican income redistribution trend doesn't reverse, shit's gonna fly.

JD

And how is our government going to pay for the huge military, farm subsidies, social security, medicare, police, fire departments, roads, etc., etc., etc..?

Ed

furnishings? Or

Right now the G'ment is going to borrow money by selling T-bills to oil wealthy Arabs. The next generation will be paying for that in taxes, either higher or new. Or substantially reduced services. What great gift for the kids.

Chas

We're rapidly approaching that point in the U.S. $87 billion to re-build Iraq including health care. Over $600 billion in deficit spending while we have tax cutting going on. People need to wake up.