sludge

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Has anyone had problems with sludge in the engine on the 2001 models.
Ed

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A few things that would be nice to know:
*There are several 2001 models out there, each with a different engine, and some with an option of more than one. Can you be more specific?
*Sludging has been reported to be an almost troubling common occurrance on several Japanese models. But I have never heard about it (much) on a Hyundai. Have you ever had this trouble on any other vehicle?
*How often are you changing your oil? And what type and weight oil are you using?
*How extensive is your sludging problem? And how long (miles or whatever) have you had it?
Tom Wenndt

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Ed & Jane Grant wrote:

No, but I run full synthetic 5w30 oil and purchase filters with at least equal filter area as the stock filter (most crossover catalogs spec a little pathetic little filter for Hyundais)
JS
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Pep Boys has a special machine that cleans out sludge, dirt, etc...from the internal engine passages. It is called a Bilstein Engine Flush procedure which is very effective . They use special solvent cleaner thru high capacity filters . They conclude by adding fresh oil and an oil filter. I think the total price was $129.
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Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

Maintain the car properly and you don't need gimmicks like this.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

Exactly!
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OK.... I fully agree with you about maintaining the car properly, but I have aquired a used 1999 2.0 Litre Hyundai Elantra.... lots of sludge, so I added a quart of transmission fluid to the oil in the engine crankcase and idled for 15 minutes and then drove about 5 miles down the street and back and then immediately changed the oil and filter... 10/40 . Lots of crap came out and after 100 miles the oil looks nice and clean but there is still sludge visible in the opening where you add the oil..... should I leave it alone or get more aggressive with ???? The engine runs great with no apparent lifter problems, etc. Advice please. electricitym - - - - - - - - - - -- - -
Matt Whiting wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Personally, I think these engine flushes are gimmicks. I'd simply maintain the car properly in the future and drive it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The sludge itself isn't likely to cause any issue at all unless it gets dislodged. I'd rather see it dissolved slowly through regular oil changes than shocked loose and have a piece get stuck in an oil passage.
It is kind of like asbestos. It isn't harmful if you leave it undisturbed.
Matt
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Are you talking about sludge or varnish? It's more or less normal for the insides of an engine to be discolored with brownish varnish and it's nothing to worry about. Sludge is thick, black, goopy buildup. It's not the same thing. I tend to agree with Matt, slugde is mainly a problem if it's loose in your engine. Attempting to clean the engine (without tearing it down and doing it manually) can cause more problems than it solves. If the engine is running well, just maintain it an otherwise leave it alone.
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You might continually run about 1/2 quart of transmission fluid in the engine. The detergents in the ATF will help dissolve the sludge. And 1/2 quart is a small enough amount that you're unlikely to get any engine damage.
Hyundai actually at one time had a tsb that said something to the effect of warming the engine to operating temp, draining the oil and installing atf and replacing the filter, running for 20 minutes, and then draining the atf and installing oil and replacing the filter. I cannot find it online anymore, so I suspect they don't really want anyone doing this.
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'Pep Boys has a special machine that cleans out sludge, dirt, etc...from the internal engine passages. It is called a Bilstein Engine Flush procedure which is very effective . They use special solvent cleaner thru high capacity filters . They conclude by adding fresh oil and an oil filter. I think the total price was $129.
Maintain the car properly and you don't need gimmicks like this. Matt
REPLY: Until youve had it done and see the junk that comes out in the Bilstien Machine and its filters....you shouldnt make relative opinions of inaccuracy. Regards.
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Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

It isn't the gunk that comes out that I care about, it is the gunk that is loosened up and doesn't come out. I stand by my claim that these treatments are not necessary, at best cause no harm, and at worst can ruin your engine.
Kind of like all of the things dealers used to add on to line their pockets and fleece customers - remember, rust proofing, scotch guard, etc.
Matt
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'It isn't the gunk that comes out that I care about, it is the gunk that is loosened up and doesn't come out. I stand by my claim that these treatments are not necessary, at best cause no harm, and at worst can ruin your engine.'
REPLY: Have you actually seen the Bilstein Flush Machine in operation by a trained person ? If not, then you should refrain from denouncing it until you have seen it in operation and have some conclusive emphirical evidence to accurately report on . Lastly, what is your basis for assuming that the sludge doesnt come out ?
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Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through engineering school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger for nearly 7 years. I've seen Detroit diesels with sludge an inch thick in spots and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer ports in the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than power loss from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours on it.
Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted. Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no difference.
Do you own stock in this company?
Matt
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'I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through engineering school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger for nearly 7 years. I've seen Detroit diesels with sludge an inch thick in spots and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer ports in the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than power loss from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours on it. Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted. Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no difference. Do you own stock in this company? Matt '
REPLY: Glad to see you have had a good career Matt ; however, unless you have first hand experience with this Bilstien Machine , have seen the results, and the evidence , etc.... you should reserve any disparaging comments regarding it. Your comments should be of an inquisitive nature and not of an absolute disent nature . That is my advice for you and i present it in all respect. As for it 'not helping'... you dont know that either. In my particular case, i had it done to a 1998 CHevy Cargo Van with 108,000 miles on it and it totally cured a ticking valve lifter immediately after the Bilstien Flush. Further, if the flush is done correctly / repeated in severe circumstances....it will allow maximum flow of oil to reach critical areas of the engine the same that Medical RotoDrilling does to a person who has plaque in his arteries .
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I'll interject here that Dave's experience is one of the few actual benefits of an engine flush. If you do happen to get something lodged in a small passage, the flusher could possibly push it out.
If I had a customer with a valve tap, I'd recommend trying an engine flush prior to engaging in extensive and costly engine repairs. What's to lose?
But it's also important to know that success in these endeavors is mixed. I've stopped some valve taps with the machine, but others still remained. I had one car flushed after the owner failed to change the oil and the delivery passages were restricted. It bought the customer about 6 months before the bearing clearances were bad enough that the oil pressure was low.
I don't have a problem with the flusher, particularly. Like most things, it has a usefulness that cannot be denied. But the issue is that services like this marketed as some sort of regular maintenance service or some magic bullet. Well, they aren't. There's no benefit to flushing an engine crankcase that has no problem.
If your engine is sludged, but you are having no actual oiling issues, the procedure has no more value than adding 1/2 qt. of ATF with each oil change, and, like Matt correctly pointed out, the flush can *cause* problems if pieces of sludge are knocked loose into the oil pan. With no oiling issues, it'd be far better to try to gradually dissolve the sludge.
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hyundaitech wrote:

What's to lose is your engine if you dislodge a large piece of gunk and clog up the passage to a main bearing in the process of opening up the passage to the lifter. Personally, I'd try running a synthetic oil for a change or two first. Jumping right to an engine flush is like driving a finishing nail with a 5 lb maul. Sure, it'll drive the nail, but it'll also leave a large dent in the finished wood!
Matt
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While I agree there's a chance of engine damage, that's very small. I don't see the point in doing the flush in the case where there is no actual oiling problem to begin with, but if you've already got a clogged or partially clogged passage, you're far more likely to do damage by driving than by flushing. And remember, this would be for people facing costly repairs in the first place. If it's inexpensive to clean by hand whatever's clogged, that's a far better alternativbe.
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wrote:

All one has to do is tear down an older engine that has been well-maintained and have a look. It's amazing how clean everything is... including the oil pan. Only in cases of abuse or overheating will you normally find anything that flushing would help.
--
Bob

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I've done engine flushes on sludged engines and seen no appreciable difference. It may wash some of the sludge out of the passages, but the bulk of it remains in the engine. In my opinion, it's mostly a waste of money.
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