sludge

'DId you do it with the Bilstien ENgine Flush Machine which

pumps heated solvent thru the oil filter spindle, fills up the block oil

passages with the solvent letting it sit for 15 minutes , then

circulates fresh solvent thru at 45 psi while the old solvent comes out

of the Oil Pan and across filters in the Machine which are visible ? Ive

personally witnessed this being done on two of my high mileage vehicles

and i change oil with filter at 3 k. miles using synthetic oil and high

performance oil filter. Its worth it to do about every 40 k miles if its

done with this specific Machine.

Let me guess. After you do this, you get 10% better fuel mileage, your

engine has 20 more HP, it runs quieter, starts better and stops faster.

=A0=A0=A0=A0Did I miss anything?

Matt '

REPLY: You should not be listened to Matt since you come to the table

with an unsupportable preconcieved bias in many instances ; you

denounce this particular Engine Flush procedure without even having

first hand knowledge or personal experience with it. At least go to

their website and come up to speed on the Machine, how it works, its

benefits, et al...instead of offering a conclusion based on personal

bias.

'Dave's been a good boy here. There have been others who have been out

of line with their comments and have dredged up their so-called trash

from other places.

I don't car about what anyone else says happens other places, not am I

going to go there just to look for dirt on Dave. He could be a great guy

or he could be the world's largest angle-side-side. As long as he's

respectful here (as he has been), I'll reply.'

REPLY: I appreciate your attitude and philosophy H.T. The main reason

why i have folks like 'Godless Heathen' stalk me in an attempt to

discredit me , is because I simply challenge their willful

godlessness/immorality/spread of degradation ... and they dont seem to

like that too much. They think i should be tolerant to their 'religion'

of suppressed moral conscience, which isnt going to happen. The main

reason America is in the moral mess its in , is because of complacency

toward the Immoral Hedonists. Youd be surprised where these Varmin pop

up in the NG's i visit. Its not that i hate them...its that i take a

stand against their cause ; the same that our Founding Fathers did when

this (once) great country was birthed.

I looked inside before and after. No noticeable change. Considering the

amount of sludge that was originally there and the amount that was still

there, I didn't see the point in doing it a second time.

I hope this isn't an attempt to prove me wrong, Dave. While I support

Christian morals, I also support tolerance of others up to the point where

they begin to tread on my individual rights.

Yes, but coolant serves other purposes in addition to heat transfer.

And pure water isn't very good at corrosion protection, seal protection,

etc.

Matt

I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through engineering

school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger for nearly

and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer ports in

the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than power loss

from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours on it.

Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at

all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted.

Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no difference.

Do you own stock in this company?

Matt

I'll put my technical background against yours any day of the week.

What are your credentials? I have two BS degrees, am completing a

masters at present and am a licensed professional engineer in NY state

(and you can look that up on their web site if you don't believe me).

OK, your turn.

Matt

OK, I viewed the web site. I'm now even more convinced this is simply

another way to separate people from their money. The before and after

pictures are particularly telling. There is a lot of stuff remaining in

the after picture. For a real comparison, they should have also showed

a new oil pan and oil pickup (at least that is what I think was in the

picture). Then you could see how much stuff remains. Also, when an

engine is running, it slings oil everywhere. Ever see a high-speed

camera shot inside the crankcase of a running engine? I have and the

oil is flying everywhere. The flush system, from what is shows on the

web site graphic, is running fluid in and letting it drain back to the

crankcase and then suctioning it out. The suggests that most of the

engine is going to be cleaned as the oil only flows back through the oil

passages. It isn't covering the entire inside of the engine the way the

oil is when the engine is running.

In the end, all of this is irrelevant anyway as the sludge has virtually

no effect on the operation of the engine. Even the "data" they show,

was showing improvements that likely aren't even statistically

significant. 1-3% is in the noise level of most measurement techniques.

An engine on a dyno can experience a 1% change in torque from morning

to afternoon must from temperature and humidity changes. To claim that

a 1% difference was due to this flush is simply hogwash.

However, as has been often said "there's one born every minute" so these

folks will probably get lots of business with their scare tactics. I

wonder how cars have operated so well for 100 years without this magic

machine?

Matt

'I hope this isn't an attempt to prove me wrong, Dave. While I support

Christian morals, I also support tolerance of others up to the point

where they begin to tread on my individual rights.'

REPLY: H.T. , Yes...I can agree with this too. However, I support

taking a stand against the very things which are sending this country

down the moral sewer also ; I think its encumbant upon all of us who

know right from wrong and who care about this Country to do so. I trust

you feel the same way as its ok to be intolerant toward things which

ruin an entire nation. Regards.

'Yes, but coolant serves other purposes in addition to heat transfer.

And pure water isn't very good at corrosion protection, seal protection,

etc.

Matt'

REPLY: True. Which is why i had also mentioned in the particular RV post

thread i made in that Forum , that a corrosion inhibitor was required in

conjunction with the 100% distilled water . This assumes NO A/C is on

the car also , as, with straight water, it is possible to freeze up the

heating coil (with stagnant water only in it) since it is downstream of

the A/C's evaporator. With A/C, at least a 25% coolant to 75% water is

advisable .

'I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through

engineering school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger

for nearly 7 years. I've seen Detroit diesels with sludge an inch thick

in spots and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer

ports in the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than

power loss from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours

on it.

Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at

all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted.

Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no

difference.

Do you own stock in this company?

Matt '

REPLY: Glad to see you have had a good career Matt ; however, unless

you have first hand experience with this Bilstien Machine , have seen

the results, and the evidence , etc.... you should reserve any

disparaging comments regarding it. Your comments should be of an

inquisitive nature and not of an absolute disent nature . That is my

advice for you and i present it in all respect. As for it 'not

helping'... you dont know that either. In my particular case, i had it

done to a 1998 CHevy Cargo Van with 108,000 miles on it and it totally

cured a ticking valve lifter immediately after the Bilstien Flush.

Further, if the flush is done correctly / repeated in severe

circumstances....it will allow maximum flow of oil to reach critical

areas of the engine the same that Medical RotoDrilling does to a person

who has plaque in his arteries .

'I'll put my technical background against yours any day of the week.

What are your credentials? I have two BS degrees, am completing a

masters at present and am a licensed professional engineer in NY state

(and you can look that up on their web site if you don't believe me).

OK, your turn.

Matt'

REPLY: Matt, In the interest of civility in this NG, Im not even going

there. I have adoped a personal philosophy over the years and it goes

like this : If I (or someone else) has not had FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE

with something/someone....then it is a wise person who reserves making

comment until such time that it is fully justifiable and appropriate

based on firm evidence. This has served me very well . I wish no

animosity between you and myself Matt. There is a plethera of knowledge

to be had in this NG and we should focus in on that instead . I hope

you will agree. And i humbly apologize if i offended you in anyway

concerning this thread. Dave.

'I wonder how cars have operated so well for 100 years without this

magic machine?

Matt'

REPLY: The same way they did before Capacitive Discharge Ignition

Systems came along.

You've got a pretty warped perspective, Dave. All it takes is a brief

look around to see that some of the most immoral people on the planet

also claim to be very religious. Religion has been used to justify some

of the most heinously immoral acts in history. Religious belief is not a

prerequisite for morality, nor is it a guarantee of it. Conversely, lack

of religious belief does not portend immorality or hedonism. You sound

like just another typical intolerant religious zealot. You may believe

that you're part of the solution, but people like you are actually the

major source of the problem.

Who was it who said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

If you don't want other people's beliefs imposed on you, don't impose

yours upon them. Pretty simple, eh? If more people followed that

principle and adopted the "live and let live" credo, there'd be a lot

less strife in this world.

Can we go back to talking about cars now?

It also has a lower boiling point, a higher freezing point and therefore

doesn't protect against either as well as a 50:50 mix. Water is fine in

racing engines that get torn down after a few hundred miles, but it's

ridiculous to run it in a street engine.

Game, set and match to Hyundaitech! ;-)

What's that got to do with normal, production vehicles - Sonata, Elantra,

Taurus, etc?

''I wonder how cars have operated so well for 100 years without this

magic machine?

Matt'

The same way they did before Capacitive Discharge Ignition

Systems came along.

What's that got to do with normal, production vehicles - Sonata,

Elantra, Taurus, etc?'

REPLY: Everything. Cars have been working reasonably well for nearly

increases....there are more advantageous methods and ways which were not

known some 100 years ago. Such is the case with preventive maintenance

/ repair techniques on modern cars versus old ones.

But my question was: What point are you trying to make by relating the way

cars have operated prior to the existence of the de-sludging machine - which

I guess could be used on most any vehicle - to something like CDI, which is

not present on, and cannot be adapted to be used with most normal vehicles?