Mercedes, Not US, To Bail Out Chrysler

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edward ohare wrote:


Well, in corporate finance as well as in the economy, decisions made 20 years ago DO come to fruition today.

One of his many mistakes. He did a great job of saving the company. Once it was healthy, he should have stepped aside and allowed the engineers to create and be competitive again, rather than hanging onto a survive on a shoestring mentality.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault#The_Renault_Nissan_Alliance_.282000.E2.80.93_.29
Although this is a Wikipedia reference it looks accurate. Alliance since 1999 with sharecross-holdings.
Carlos Ghosn was sent by Renault to turn Nissan around, which he did, so he got promoted to be boss of Renault as well.
DAS
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On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:26:38 -0000, "Dori A Schmetterling"

Agreed to March 27 1999. And you can see here
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date 990310&slug)48681
that DaimlerChrysler gave up on trying to get Nissan March 10 1999.
So Schrempp and Co were out of it before Ghosen and Co stepped in.

And Schrempp got put out to pasture.
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On Dec 3, 1:06 pm, edward ohare

Actually they had sold all their shares years earlier.

Well, they started in 1970 and used Mitsu products for what, 20+ years? Plus the Normal IL factory.

No they didn't. Colts were sold through 1994, 16 years after the Omni/ Horizon were introduced.

There was no hiatus. And the Colt was more the size of the Rabbit and Civic and Corolla FX, not the Fiesta. (I owned a Fiesta; it was smaller.)

The minivans offered the 3.0 sohc V6 from Mitsu long after Chrysler's 3.3 V6 was offered in them too. And the 2.5 V6 in Cirrus/Stratus, remember?

Well, again, from what I read, it was the Chrysler execs who convinced Daimler to tie up with Mitsu instead of Nissan.

Yep. For a while a wagon version of the mid-size was also planned instead of the sedan the Avenger became. The idea was Chrysler for sedans, Dodge for wagons and hatchbacks.

Imagine the mid-sizes on the Altima platform instead of a Lancer platform. The small on a Sentra instead of a Lancer. The Journey on a Murano platform instead of, you guess it, a Lancer.

Did you READ the Business Week quote?

Except for the Sebring, Avenger, Caliber, Compass, Patriot, Journey -- all on Mitsu platforms.
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wrote:

OK, then that disproves your point about how Chrysler wanted to be involved.

Time. As you observe above, they took their money out of Mitsubishi. And they sold their share of Diamond-Star. They were pulling out and Mercedes got them involved again.

I ***agree*** a car named "Colt" was sold later. I ***disagree*** the car named "Colt" sold after the Omni/Horizon introduction was in the same market segment as the Omni/Horizon. See above... "cut out Mitsubshi in that size class".
For example 77 Colt at a 92 inch wheelbase, 78 Horizon at 99 inches.

Think the Plymouth Champ style Colt. Remember the one with the twin stick trans?

It doesn't make sense that the guys who pulled away, who built their own cars and own engines for segments where they previously bought from Mitsubishi, and made money doing it, wanted to become mere vehicle distributors again.

You don't know Nissan would have done well under Schrempp. Gee, he might have turned all the Nissan cars into wagons and all the Infinitis into trucks!

Somebody's opinion that doesn't match up with the facts I see.

Uh, Lloyd, that's the point. Decisions to do these things were with Mercedes in charge.
Oh, and the Caliber... I checked a friend's today and the VIN starts with a 1, which I've only seen on US assembly of big three cars (Toyota, Nissan, etc NA assembly get a 4 first in the VIN) and the door decal says manufactured by Daimler Chrysler. So are you sure of the origin of this car?
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On Dec 6, 11:23 pm, edward ohare

How? It was the Chrysler folks who argued that DC should invest in Mitsu and not Nissan.

No, it was the Chrysler execs who argued for getting involved with Mitsu again.

Yes. Bigger than Fiesta.

They felt using Mitsu to develop small-car platforms was what they needed. Plus, they felt a presence in Asia was needed. The Mercedes folks favored a tie-in with Nissan, but the Chrysler folks favored one with Mitsu.

Some expert's objective opinion. You are hardly either an expert or objective.

And again, I remind you, it was the Chrysler folks who convinced DC to go with Mitsu.

The platform was developed by Mitsu. It's made in a Chrysler plant. Just like the Ford Taurus uses a platform Volvo helped develop, but it's made in a Ford plant. It's not a Mitsu car; it uses a Mitsu platform. You can really do a little research and find this out.
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wrote:

You don't know if I'm an expert, you don't know if I'm objective, and regardless I can point out that the opinion doesn't match with facts we know.

There were no "Chrysler folks". The company was being run by Mercedes folks.
But I'm objective. Give me a cite.

Since you already know, please enlighten me.
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On Dec 8, 12:40 pm, edward ohare

Actually it's pretty obvious you're neither an expert nor objective. And what you think are facts are not. Can you cite a source for your "facts"?

Wrong. This was still in the early days. Lots of Chrysler execs, including on the Board of Management.

"Both of Chrysler's current front drive car platforms are being replaced by Mitsubishi platforms,"
http://www.allpar.com/ed/2003/future-of-chrysler.html
"The fwd vehicle platform for such models as the 2007 Dodge Caliber, Jeep Compass and Chrysler Sebring originated at Mitsubishi."
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060808/FREE/60807008/1041/PHOTOS
"Chrysler offers two mid-size cars in the form of the Chrysler Sebring and Dodge Avenger, both based on the JS-platform, which was developed with Mitsubishi."
http://jalopnik.com/5062950/gm-vs-chrysler-product-lineup-fantasy-draft
"The new Sebring will be built on a Mitsubishi Lancer-derived platform, "
http://www.3autos.com/Spy-Shots-2007-Chrysler-Sebring /
"The Outlander is Mitsubishi's smallest SUV offering in North America. The compact crossover is built on the same platform as the Dodge Caliber and Chrysler Sebring -- the result of a partnership with Chrysler."
http://www.leftlanenews.com/mitsubishi.htm
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On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:39:35 -0500, Comments4u

You should be ashamed of yourself... Now I have to clean *another* keyboard. I'm going to get a water/coffee proof keyboard, this is getting to be too much trouble!
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"Joe Camel", eh?
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It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress

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Don't understand the maths
"...we expect the value of our 20% stake in Chrysler will eventually rise to zero!"
FALL to zero maybe?
DAS
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(Dori - it's satire)
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Bill Putney wrote:

ok
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,,,,,, yes, but the math is probably stil correct.... rise to zero :-)
cheers guenter

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You mean from a minus value?
DAS
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Yes. BTW I notice that no one here appears to be a Monty Python fan :-(
cheers

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I am. What did I miss?
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..... the three Yorkshire men vis a vis who has the slowest Diesel. To wit
when discussing their hard times when young, while drinking Chateua le Chateaulai (or some such thing): 'now we had it tough, lived in the bottom of a lake, got up half hour before we went to bed and our father would slash into us with breadknifes if....) you get the drift. Reminiscent of the diesel of old discussion and how slow they were... :-)
I guess it's just me.... I seem to associate a lot with the Python group.
cheers

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I know this scene - saw it not that long ago on YouTube (my 11-yr-old loves Monty Python) but I didn't make the connection with reminiscing about old diesels (mine was slower than yours / I suffered more than you did...)
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**DO NOT TOPPOST!**
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:05:32 -0000, "Dori A Schmetterling"

*WOOSH*
Missed that one completely, didn't you!
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