Today I had my 2002 Subaru Legacy Wagon (150,000km) into my local mechanic (dealership is too far away for anything but big stuff...) to replace a worn belt. It had been running rough at idle so I asked him to see if maybe I needed the spark plugs replaced or perhaps have a tune up. When he pulled the plugs all four spark plug sleeves were full of oil. The ignition wires were also oil soaked. About 25,000 km ago I had the head gaskets replaced at a dealership. My local guy suspects a gasket of some sort may have been put in wrong when head gaskets were done.
I am totally non-mechanical. Any comments or suggestions before I talk to/take it back to the dealership?
My guy Dx'd the likely cause as valve cover seals when discovering oil on the plug boots. Of course we also discovered an internal head gasket breach at the same time, so the heads went to the machine shop and we had new gaskets a plenty. No problem after all that of course.
Dont' let the local guy do anything more. It's now worth the drive to the dealership. Have them test your catalytic converter too. A theory I haven't been able to independently substantiate is that increase in back force from a failed cat can lead to valve cover gasket failure, which then gives you your oil on plug wires problem.
Misfires (consistent with rough running at idle) can lead to raw fuel being thrown down the exhaust pipe which will apparently hasten a catalytic converter's demise, so it all seems plausible.
Don't get stuck getting thigns done at an independent like I did... unless he's waist deep in your engine, get your car back and get it to a sbuaru dealer, and perhaps follow up with a call to the
800 number for sube customer service and let them know what's going on and that it's at one of their dealers to fix what appears to be a screw up on the part of one of their dealers, or collateral damage to a headgasket issue, or all the above.
Best Regards,
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
I will print it out and keep it handy. I have an appointment already at the dealership.
Though tempted, I will spare you the litany of expensive problems I've had with my Subie over the last year or two. Suffice it to say that it has cost thousands of dollars, and many, many visits to mechanics and dealerships...
No, please tell. It may lend insight into the present issue.
As for de greekification, the valve cover is thing you can see on the outside of the engine. The spark plug boots go down into circular holes in teh valve cover. The valve cover gasket is an oval thingee than seals that valve cover to the head of the engine. It's called a valve cover because if you take it off, you'll see the valve train of the engine which controls the opening and closing of the exhaust and air intake valves on the cylinders.
Catalytic converter is a bulge in your exhaust pipe that helps catalyze some chemical reactions that results in cleaner stuff coming out the tailpipe. It's an expensive thingee that doesn't like having raw gasoline thrown at it. If it plugs up and deteriorates inside, it creates more backpressure to the engine, so when the engine is pushing exhaust out, the cylinders have to push harder. This strains seals, and may lead them to fail and allow say, oil to squirt past em (if my mechanic's story is to be believed).
Misfires are when the spark and fuel get together in teh cylinder, but for whatever reason, no explosion occurs. Spark plug doesn't fire, fuel injector clogged and there's no enough fuel, not enough air getting into the chamber, the whole fire needs fuel, air, and heat thing we learned in science class. When a misfires are occurring, the engine will stumble on acceleration, or feel rough at idles, etc. If there's a misfire due to a spark plug not firing, instead of the cylinder having a nice little explosion, you just have teh fuel injector spraying gas in there, and without and explosion that vaporized fuel just gets pushed out the exhaust valve into the exhaust pipe and on the way down to the catalytic converter...which doesn't like dealing with raw gasoline.
Best Regards,
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Well, ok... But I am not sure if I can recall the whole list off the top of my head..
Well, biggest was head gaskets...
Car was overheating. Tried new radiator cap, no, thermostat, no radiator flush, no. Then finally to dealership...confirmed head gaskets, both replaced. Still continued to have overheating problems. More visits. Finally, new radiator (my cost).
There was also a CEL problem... This took maybe 10 visits in all, 2 or three to local guy - resetting cel, trying gas cap, etc. Then to dealership... resetting cel... then finally diagnosed corroded wiring harness somewhere around rear wheel well.
Also, but probably unrelated....
Several visits over time about shuddering steering. Also, horrible whining sound when starting cold. Diagnosed as failed/failing power steering pump. Replaced. Still whines when cold. Disappears after a minute or so. I am living with this one... Some big expensive suspension thing.. Ball joint? Sorry I can't recall correctly. Oxygen sensor. Light burned out on dashboard.. living with that one... Also, currently the car creaks like an old rocking chair. Local guy has lubricated, but not fixed yet I think.
Bejesus. Wow. These cars are notiously difficult to "burp" to eliminate air in the cooling system. I wonder if an inexpeienced non subie guy did a coolant flush at some point before all that. But you'd think the dealer would have gotten it right when they did the head gaskets. Oy. What a mess.
Wiring to the evaporative pressure sensor in the gas tank presumably. yikes. First time I've heard of that failure mode too.
My word...
CV joint perhaps. If the boots get torn, joint gets dirty and you start hearing bad noises when making sharp turns? That's a guess. Those suck too.
Been there.
I have a rear strut too that sound like it needs replacement.
How many miles you have on this pain in yer butt? Mine's at about
112k.
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
My car has 150,000 km. Everyone else I know talks about their Subarus having
200,000 or 275,000 or more kms and "never anything but oil changes and brakes"... Sigh.
And this was going to be the "One Good Car" I was ever going to own. There is still so much I really, really like about this car - it's just the right size, it isn't a gas guzzler, the four wheel drive is great, the brakes are the best on any car I've ever owned. It had just the luxury features I wanted, but nothing to excess: remote door locks, ABS brakes, thermometer in the dash, electric mirrors... It rides nicely, handles well, the engine revs entertainingly, and it is comfortable and fun to drive. The stereo sounds fine. The interior is simple, and functional. I like the slightly quirky nature of the car. Heck, I even think it looks great! I like it more than the new Legacy I've driven, which seems cramped to me...
But, but, but.... the reliability that everyone else seems to have is not there for me. I haven't, of course, mentioned routine costs in the last couple of years... 4 new tires, a cracked windshield, various little issues around brakes etc.. Much of these sorts of costs are to be expected, and can't be blamed on Subaru - but *man* they do add up.... The costs of my Subie far outstrip any other car I've owned. And it was my last shot... after this Subie, I was forced to buy the dreaded minivan. Yuck. It's a Sienna. It's a fine minivan. No complaints. Totally reliable so far. Great on those long vacation car trips with the wife and kids. But I really hate it. It seems as big as a bus and I can't feel the road. I'm always stretching my neck like a chicken trying to manouver it about.
I have the subaru with the big solid black circle under "engine major" on it in the Consumer Reports Used Car guide.
And sadly, so do you. :-) 2001 and 2002 were baaaad years. Lucky us huh?
Yup. They are expensive for routine maintenance. I learned this this year too. I had $2200 of preventive/scheduled/wear crap done and that was a few months BEFORE the head gasket was discovered.
I love questions I can answer with a URL:
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There is no Subaru glow of reliability in my world.
Best Regards,
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
That's a belt or the alternator going bad if it sounds like a large hydrolic pump working hard. (The only thing I know that sounds just like it is the point in the Terminator movie when armor-chasis get's crushed at the end of the movie.)
Mine did that, and eventually the alternator failed completely.
The whining is more like a dentist's drill, high pitched, shrill... I believe the new power steering pump (at over $500.00 to fix) has solved the shuddering. Just had the belts checked and replaced - actually that was what the car was in for...
Well, it went into the dealership and I have the answers - lets go from worst to first... :(
Whining noise - they say a belt wasn't tight enough. I don't believe it but I can't be sure until I try it when it is below freezing and I start the cold engine. The jury is still out on this one...
Creaking noise - a suspension bushing. Bushing is .00 or so, plus 3 hours(!) of shop time to install it. 0.00 to stop the creaking noise. They say that it won't affect function of suspension, but would stop the noise. I am going to turn the radio up, drown out the creaking and live with it... :(
Oil in spark plug sleeves. Well, yes, that is happening due to failed seals. They *could* fix it to the tune of oh, 0.00 or so... BUT..... wait for it........................... there isn't much point............ since I need to replace.......................you guessed it.......... the head gaskets! AGAIN!! And the service manager SWEARS that THIS time the fix will be permanent....
In the grand scheme of life, of course, this is a small thing. But within the limits of that perspective, I am furious about this and, simultaneously, full of dispirited resignation. I just *knew* it was going to be yet another huge repair.
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