A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak. I can't see it, but I'm pretty sure it is upper left corner front. I'm also pretty sure there are no hoses there. My regular mechanic is in favor of putting stop-leak in, but another guy we know told the owner he does not approve. That other guy is responsible for very expensive special vehicles that are supposed to be 100% available.
Can anyone convince us one way or the other? I'm pushing for the cheap fix myself.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they cause no problems, other times they block up the heater core so it can need a flush later. It likely needs a flush anyway....
On something that old I would try it, it can hold some wicked cracks. When I use it I always 'expect' to need the heater core flush later, so I only get surprised when I don't need to....
Intermittent leak can be the pump seal though. Stop leak won't help that. You might want to see if you can run your finger under the snout of the waterpump after running for enough to warm it up and shutting it down. If you feel moisture under there, he needs a pump.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail > A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
"...very expensive special vehicles that are supposed to be 100% available"? What does that mean?
Oh, and don't use stop leak. That's the same basic product as "Doesn't Stop Leak", "Over Heat" and "Stop Heat". The remediation required after using stop leak will likely cost more than a proper repair would have.
"Cheap fix" "Hey I'll just toss in a can of stop leak and fix it, cheap." Buy $3.00 can of "Stop Leak" and pour it into the radiator. Start the engine and drive around for a while to "fix the leak". While driving around you decide it is a little chilly out and turn on the heat. Drive home and park the car. "Hey look at that it isn't leaking, GREAT, and it was CHEAP." Next day you check the coolant level and add some since the engine has now cooled down and isn't leaking. You jump in the car, Fire it up and drive down the road. You turn on the heat and wait, and wait and...W A I T some more. "Huh the heater was working fine yesterday.. I Know it has some air in it because the coolant got a little low." The next day you still don't have heat, and you notice that the engine seems to be running hotter than before. Half way to work you suddenly see the temperature spike up fast and steam starts coming out from under the hood. "Dammit, Well I guess something must have blown apart" So You call the tow company who comes out and takes you back to a shop. There they start looking it over and discover that the radiator core is half plugged by the "Stop Leak" They pull it and replace it with a new one. You then mention that the heater wasn't working very well, The shop tries to flush it but that doesn't work and they ask you if they should replace it. You say "Sure I need heat" They tear apart half of the dash and replace the heater core. They also replace both of the molded rubber lines since they are pretty ratty. Put everything back together and send you out the door.
Total bill for that "cheap fix":
Radiator: $215.00 Upper and lower hoses: $46.00 Heater core: $48.00 Heater steel lines: $73.00 Heater rubber lines: $27.00 Coolant: $16.00 Thermostat& Gasket: $12.00 Radiator cap:$10.00 (all prices listed are from online sources NOT what you will likely pay, those WILL be higher)
About 5 hours labor at $85.00(+)per hour
Plus Tow bill : $100.00 (probably low unless your insurance covers it or you know the operator) Two days off from work because the car is in the shop.
Five days later the water pump starts weeping because the crap in the "Stop Leak" wiped out the seals.......
So look at the car. It is an '88 Park Ave so I can't call it from here.... If it is a nice car that is in good shape and the owner plans to keep it for a while then, no, don't put stop leak in it.
If the car is a beater that's ready for car heaven any day now then go ahead and give it a try but be prepared if something goes wrong.
Stop leak can plug up the heater core and the radiator. As these devices age they tend to get plugged up with scale. The stop leak can "finish them off" by plugging them up solid enough to stop them from working properly.
GM has a stop leak product that is made of Ginger root. It comes in a pack of around 4 pellets that you put in the radiator. Bars Leak has a very similar product that is there Bars Leak Gold and is a powder product. This product was factory fill and had to be used at every flush on Cadillac 4.1 4.5 and 4.9 engines (maybe early Notthstar too, I'm not sure). If you are going to use a stop leak product this is the one I would use.
The stop leak works sometimes. It doesn't fix the problem, but it delays things for a while.
Don't think you won't have to replace the radiator, because you will. But with the stop-leak you might be able to put off replacing it for another year or so.
If you use a good quality product, it won't do any harm. But it won't really fix the problem, just hide it for a while.
I have used this method on 3 different cars and it always works.
Drain radiator and block.
Rinse with water till its clear
Put in one bottle of Lime Away (green bottle). Run engine and heater for 30 minutes.
Rinse twice with clean water.
Refill with water, antifreeze and one bottle of Barrs Stop Leak (Silver bottle)
The lime away cleans so good that the inside of radiator looked bright copper again.
It has always worked. Never plugged the radiator or heater core.
PS. on one car i did replace the radiator. Shortly after the warranty was up it blew up splitting down the top. So this proves that putting in all new is best. Thats just bullshit.
Don't listen to the idiots who want you to spend money you don't have to replace every little thing with all new. Apparently he works for a parts house who wants to sell, sell, sell. Or is to stupid to understand that if the man doesn't have the money he cant buy it. So STFU Steve. Your arrogant attitude is annoying.
I'm going to guess this mechanic also sells radiators. The stop leak may work for a while, but it may also plug up the radiator completely. Get the problem fixed correctly with a new radiator.
I would warm up the engine,let it run for a while.Look for leaks at hoses,radiator,water pump,heater.If it is the radiator,you can remove the radiator and take it to a radiator repair shop and have it properly repaired.I have used Bar's Leaks before,many years ago and it did work ok for me.
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Ever heard of people putting a raw egg or sawdust in an old vehicle's radiator before to stop a leak? I have never done that before,but I do like to read about the ''old tricks''. cuhulin
Black pepper does work really well. I have used it when 'waay' back in the Canadian bush and made it 300 miles or so home with no issues. I did remove the rad and solder up the leak later though.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06
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(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
I did lots of quick fixes in my youth to keep those old beater cars running, and Barrrs Leaks was one of the fixes. Also did the following:
Used a piece of rope as a fan belt (big belt). Taped a leaky hose and left the radiator cap loose. Ran reclaimed oil but never changed it 'cause the car leaked so bad. Fixed broken carb linkage with a paper clip. Ran straight water in the radiator 'cause coolant was expensive. Learned quickly how to drive a car with a busted clutch in heavy traffic. Yes, dead starts are possible with a good starter. Power steering sealant does work - for a while. Learned to park downhill for bump starts when I couldn't afford a new battery. Found you could temporarily "fix" a stuck thermostat by drilling a couple of bypass holes.
I need my cars to last a lot longer so my repairs are more expensive and far more permanent now.
Well,I learned some new ''old tricks'' there.How about Gus Wilson's Model Garage? I used to read those articles many years ago in Popular Science magazines.
That is an interesting site and the stories from 1925 to 1970 are nostalgic. Thanks for posting it. That sort of storytelling would be out of place in today's world, but those of us who worked on cars and in gas stations in the 1950's through 1960's should get a kick out of it.
"Gus" reminds me a little of the father of one of my junior high school buddies. He was a mechanic for a large bakery that actually had route salesmen for home delivery in vans.
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