If you regularly tow 10K then the diesel is the way to go. It is my
opinion that Ford must make a pretty good diesel or there wouldn't be
so many of them on the road. I would be partial to the duramax
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:48:04 -0400, Cad Man <> wrote:
make that Ford buys a pretty good diesel... same with dodge... gm is
the only one that actually produces their diesel engine (through a
subsidiary). the excavating contractor my former employer used to use
had a finish grading crew that towed a 8,000+lbs tracked takeuchi skid
steer every day behind a '98 C3500 with a Vortec 350 in it... the guy
that drove the truck said it had enough pwer, but he wasn't racing it
either. this was in Maine.. fairly hilly counrty too.
I pull a Bobcat skidsteer pretty regularly with a '99 C2500 350 auto. No
more than enough power and the auto wants to shift a lot on hills. If it
were mine, I'd go for a C3500 and standard trans. 350cid would probably be
ok with this setup. Diesel would be better, just depends how much money you
have to spend. I've also used a Dodge 1 ton with V10, 5 speed which pulls it
nicely. Both trucks get real thirsty when pulling the Bobcat.
Do the math before deciding. Figure the better fuel mileage of the diesel
versus the extra cost to buy it, which can be as much as a $7,000 premium. You
have to drive a lot of miles and save LOTS of fuel to recover that cost.
If you are talking strickly cost numbers, and not the truck's pulling
ability, driving range on a tank of gas/fuel without having to stop and
refill, the reliability of the compaired engines given the load it will be
pulling. Sure, a 350ci can pull that load, but how well? will it be able to
keep up in traffic? will it overheat at the first sign of an incline? what
trand do they have behind the 350? how much compression braking does the 350
have compaired to the Diesel?
Per tank, How big is the tank on those trucks? If its a 30 gallon tank and
you are getting 10mpg with the gas, thats 300 miles a tank, then lets say
you get 15 out of the Diesel. thats 450 miles a tank. when it comes to lost
time sitting at a filling station, that extra 150 miles can add up.
ok, lets get that Diesel to pay for itself now.
assuming 10,000 miles a year, 10mpg for gas, and 15 mpg for Diesel. thats
666 gallons of Diesel, OR, 1000 gallons of gas. Current Ave price for gas
around here, $2.20/gallon, Diesel, $2.10.
$1398.60 for the diesel,
$2200 for the gas.
a savings of $801.4 per year. IF you are doing 10,000 miles per year. More
miles, more of a savings. so in ten years, you saved $8,014, minus $7,000
for the upgraded option of the Diesel, and leaves you with an extra $1,014
over ten years for maintinance. Take that up to 12,000 miles a year (very
common anual mileage in SoCal) and that number climbs to $2600 left over for
Diesel, 12,000/15mpg= 800 gallons, 800 gallons*$2.10 = $1680 per year
Gas, 12,000/1000 gallons, 1200 gallons* $2.20= $2640 per year
$960per year* 10 years, - $7000 for the Diesel = $2600
This is also asuming 10 mpg for the gas and 15 for the diesel. the WORST
Diesel MPG I have heard of in a pickup is 12, and the WORST gas MPG was 4. I
have also seen six year old Diesels with over 400,000 miles on them.
Can a Diesel owner give some figures for how much more it costs to maintain
a diesel over a Gas with the same workload? and maybe explain why you went
with the Diesel over the gas, since many dont care about the improved fuel
economy over added upfront cost argument. Also, what kind of miles do you
guys put on your trucks in a year?
There is also the resale/trade-in value the Diesel brings when the time
comes for a new one.
may the flames begin!
Robert Ball wrote:
A couple of minor points, anyone pulling that kind of load will probably not be
using a 350, especially since they stopped selling the 350 in new trucks several
years ago. The bigger engine usually gets a bigger transmission, or at least a
trans cooler is standard. Compression braking, the big gas engine has it all
over the diesel unless a Jacobs (Jac) brake is added to the diesel. Another
$1500 or so. The original question appeared to relate to pulling a tractor to
job sites, presumably not a lot of miles in a year. No question that the diesel
is the right choice for many people, they just need to understand what the
issues are, you did a good job of identifying those. I occasionally pull a
small front loader with my 97 2500 HD with 454, we estimated the weight at
8,200#. I personally prefer the gas engine for the other 95% of my driving.
BTW: stopping for fuel once every 5 hours does not seem a burden to me, I have
to stop every two hours to pee!!
Good figure dude, right on! I'm a firm believer in Diesel, the prices here
in Indiana are 2.00/gas 1.69 diesel, so if I were in his shoes I would buy a
diesel any time, ta hell with chevy and their wanna be good 454 gas guzzler
(sorry for the top post)
In our case, I think your numbers work out even better, Trey...
We haven't priced anything but dodge yet, but the cummins option has a
MSRP of $5,500...
Our 360 gasser gets 8 mpg towing our little 5,000 pound trailer, 15
mpg empty on a freeway trip.. it has a 26 gallon tank..
The folks that I talked to (and believe, some like to puff the
numbers) get a ball park of 11 towing and 20 on freeway trips..
My friend with the 01 f-250 gets 12 mpg towing a 12,000 5th wheel and
23 empty/freeway, but he'd probably get 9 or 10 mpg towing in our
gasser, due to driving styles..
He also runs away from us on grades, away from stop signs and in those
many cases each day on a trip that you're slowed by traffic and have
to pick up speed again..
Get the Duramax with the Allison tranny, you'll be glad you did. Ford makes
a really tuff truck, but their diesel engine that they use (Navistar, read
International Harvester) is quite over rated.
A diesel should get half again, maybe close to twice the fuel mileage over a
gasser when towing 10k, if that's a factor. Diesel fuel simply has more
energy per gallon than gasoline.
Been there, done all that.
The ford motor is fairly crappy, and the Duramax and allison transmission
aren't the greatest either.
I own a repair shop, Powerstrokes blow lifters and have bad intake valves,
to soft. The tranny's are weak.
The duramax blows injectors out of the heads and I have seen a couple
allison tranny's pile up.
I have never had a dodge in my shop yet. ;-)
I own a 94 chev 3500 4x4 6.5 standard transmission with a service body on
it, weight is 10.000 lbs. I had to rebuild everything other then the tranny
and front end.
Just so you know, take your pick.
But each it own
just my 2 cents
I'll take an inline-6 diesel over a V-configuration diesel engine every
single day of the week. The Cummins lasts, there is no way around it. As
long as you don't hop it up like a retard with chips and garbage.
My feelings exactly, Demon...
I have 2 Dodge trucks now, but the thing that's keeping me leaning
more towards for their diesel is the many problems dodge has with
transmissions, especially with diesels..
I think a lot depends on how far you're moving the equipment and how
often... the more often and longer distance I used it for, the more
I'd lean toward the diesel..
I've been researching the big 3, looking for a diesel pickup next
year, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses...
What I really want to tow our rv with is a ford f-250 super crew cab
with a cummins td and an allison tranny.. lol
I think that the bottom line is that if you're "trucking", a diesel
has more torque at lower rpm... made to tow..
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