I changed the intake gaskets and I got the distributor in exactly as the
book says. Engine runs but reports P1345.
Scan tool shows timing advance at 22 degrees and engine idles nicely after
an initial correction.
I don't think the distributor is off a tooth because the rotor aligned with
the "8" which is also number 1 tower and moving one tooth would change the
timing over 40 degrees.
I have the Dyno-Scan by Auterra and I cannot read the camshaft retard offset
adjustment. Should any consumer scan tool pick this value up? I'm
disappointed that the dyno-scan doesn't.
Do you think I'm close enough where I just need an adjustment? or is the
distributor in wrong? I don't see how I could be a tooth off and the engine
run so nicely.
Thanks in advance for help.
The P1345 has absolutely nothing to do with ignition timing.
The code definition for P1345 is; cam position sensor is not
correlated with the crankshaft position sensor.
IOWs, it is not synched as close as it should be.
I DO think the distributor is off one or more teeth, and no,
changing the distributor will NOT change the ignition timing one
degree or 40 degrees.
The distributor only performs two jobs;
1) It distributes the ignition secondary to the proper plug wire
2) It holds the camshaft position sensor whose job is to
sequence the fuel injectors and has no role in ignition timing.
The camshaft position sensor does not function as a set of
breaker points or a pole piece/timer core -used to-.
Don't know whether consumer grade scan tools will or won't read
camshaft sensor offset. Best thing would be to call Auterras'
tech support and ask them if it can and where that PID is located
in their menu.
No way to tell until you can actually read the number of degrees
the CPS is offset. And, until you know how many degrees plus or
minus, you will not know which way to turn the distributor to get
it synched back up.
Be advised, the engine RPM -has- to be raised above 1000 RPM for
the CPS offset PID to update.
Only two things are effected if the distributor is installed a
1) cam position offset (which shows up as a P1345)
2) Rotor to cap air gap (which can only be detected/observed by
scoping the ignition secondary)
The other thing I would do is; get a small mirror and flash light
and check the terminals in the plug on the camshaft position
sensor to see if any have been bent over, I've seen this more
There is no cam posotion sensor per say. THey have simply renamed the
magnetic pickup in the distributor the CMP. It is not any where near
the camshaft otherwiise (distributor is driven by cam). A P1345
usually can point to a bad CKP (crank position sensor) which provides
baseline timing referance together with CMP. CMP or distributor pickup
errors are usually a P0340 or P0341. If either of these sensors are
eratic it can cause timing issues. BTW, 22 BTDC idling warm is quite
normal so do not make a big deal out of it.
You probably should have informed GM of their error 10+ years ago.
It *is* a camshaft position sensor, that is why GM, Ford,
Chrysler et al call them camshaft position sensors.
Being as it's output function is totally different than what was
previously used, that is not a very accurate statement.
It doesn't -have- to be anywhere near the camshaft in order to be
a camshaft position sensor.
Fuck context, eh? The OP just had the distributor out and the
intake manifold off. If he had a failing CKP sensor causing a
P1345, it would most likely have been there before he started
working on the truck. Geez, you like to go off on tangents.
Again answering questions that were never asked...
No it is not. Maybe you can call it a distributor cam sensor but there
are other vehicles that have cam and crank sensors that do actualy
monitor positions directly. Heck you could even call it a oil pump
position sensor to if you wanted to because distributor drives oil
pump too. It is strictly a play on words and misleading but it sounds
more high tech than distributor magnetic pickup so they use CPS which
is somewhat misleading because it IS in the distributor.
You mean when logic exceeds your abilty you go to bashing and trolling
right???. GM has used a magnetic pickup in the distributor since the
days of HEI and they did not call it a CPS then. Same basic part and
function today just a different name for it now and I am simply
pointing that out. You guys are the one that is making something out
of nothing as usual since you have nothing better to do and lack any
real understanding beyond the very simple basics here.
They did not call it a CPS then because they didn't give a shit about the
position of the camshaft. They used the pickup to determine the position of
the crank/piston for ignition timing. As cuda said, the timing is still
based on crank position ...now determined by a crankshaft position sensor
which is a similar pick up looking directly at the crank instead of via the
timing chain/cam/distributor gear.
The new CPS information is used to sequence the fuel injection. Since the
crank position and cam position are related, the PCM performs a sanity check
between the two sensors. Too bad it can't check your sanity.
The very simple basics have changed. Perhaps you should too or not reply to
Ian, you are spot on. Some of my previous posts requesting info....I ended
the message with "snoman need not reply" or "no abominable answers, please".
Everyone....please forgive me not doing the same on my original post. I had
no idea snoman would even read my message since it didn't refer to locking
axles or engineering experiments from the 60s.
You know I pick and choose what I respond to because it is not about
being shown up but rather not stooping as low as you do especail since
I see that you posted 5 responces in a little over a hour in this
thread. You must really be awfull insecure. I actually feel abit sorry
for you and some of your cohorts at times because it appears that you
may never grow up.
Here are defenses Snoball falls back on everytime he knows he's lost the
argument... Aside from disappearing.
1. Using the "Child" defense 11 times.
"Such a child"
"You are such a child"
"and act like a child"
"You are such a child" (again)
"to act like a child"
"You must have been a troubled child"
"is such a inmature child"
"you act like a spoiled child"
"stop acting like a spoiled child"
"Uou act like a child"
"What a child!Keep it up is it makes you feel good andf gives you a
cheap thrill, like you have never had a typo."
2. Used the "Insecure" defense 19 times.
"You must really be awfull insecure."
"Just like the "law" of insecure posters causing problems..."
"You must be VERY insecure."
"these are the ones that are so insecure and threatened"
"YOu must be really insecure."
"how this stuff work must really make you feel insecure"
"cause trouble to make yourselfs feel less insecure."
"What ever makes you feel less insecure"
"You must be awful insecure."
"and it makes you really insecure"
"You must beone very insecure person!"
"children like yourself that are insecure" (add to the child list)
"You must be a very insecure person."
"We do understand that you are very insecure." (must have a mouse in his
"You must be a very insecure person."
"Boy sombody is really insecure here"
"You must be REALY insecure or something."
"One it show how insecure your really are and"
"You must be REALY insecure."
3. Using "grow up" 9 times.
"it appears that you may never grow up."
"If you want to see a half wit, look in the mirror. Grow up"
"I am still waiting for you to grow up."
"Some kids never grow up." (alt.autos.dodge.trucks)
"Some kids never grow up." (rec.outdoors.rv-travel)
"We can all hope that you do grow up one day as remote as it seems."
(that mouse again.)
"I wonder if you will ever grow up?"
"Do us all a favor *** and grow up some."
"Grow up and get a life!"
4. Using the "inmature" defense 7-9 times. (Yeah I'm not sure what
inmature is either.)
"...drool/dribble coming out of a inmature childs
mouth that serves no purpose and is unwanted just like most of his
inmature statments. You too should think before you try to pass
judgement and type because you observations are incorrect. I have a
background in electrical and mechnical engineering and a MCSE. ( if it
is mechanical I can tell you how and why it does or does not work and
calculate yeild strength of axles if you want) If I have a weakness
it is prehaps I get too complex with some of my explanations and
wrongly assume that someone can understand the obvious when inded they
infact cannot. Also, it is a classic inmature responce for..." (3
"You are the inmature child here"
"Keep up the inmature work!!!"
"is such a inmature child"
"You forgot to add that these inmature attempts"
"but you are doing a great job show the web how inmature your are and
how threatened you must feel that"
"It is so sad to be so inmature and hide in the shadows."
He never got "immature" right as it never turned up in a search of his
post. This took less than 30 minutes to compile. If I ever get enough
time to do it, the next list will be Snoballs follies. Yeah that will
take long time to compile... Might hit a upload limit posting that.
I can call it monkeys flying out of your butt, but it is still a
camshaft position sensor. Besides, there is no "distributor cam"
to begin with, so there is nothing to 'sense.'
Uh, don't look now Sherlock, but this one actually *does* monitor
camshaft position directly.
By your logic, the camshaft position sensor on a 3.4 liter DOHC
engine isn't really a camshaft position sensor because it only
monitors one of the four camshafts.
Really? What unique event occurs WRT the oil pump that we need a
So WHAT if it is in the distributor? The distributor is directly
synched to the camshaft (when correctly installed). The fact that
this confuses you so, merely illustrates why you should be
forever forbidden from giving any advice related to an
automobile/truck/tractor/lawnmower/model airplane/Tonka toy/etc.
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