Piston Slap

They don't need to bring this into any equation. As long as the ultimate supervisors (Shareholders) care only for immediate profits, don't worry, be happy$! Greed rules the roost.

"shiden_kai" didst type:

I back Ian here. Do a little reading on modern cast pistons and the silicon alloy content.

I owned a Mitsubishi loose tolerance 3.0L V6 engine that rattled like a diesel from piston slap when started cold for the first few minutes. When I pulled the heads to freshen everything up @ 146,000 mi., there was some scuffing in the cylinder bores but no other problems. I could still see the hone marks in all of the cylinders even in most of the scuffed area. Once buttoned back up, compression was at 96-99% of spec on all cylinders. The next owner is now past 200,000 mi. on the stock bottom end and still going.

The 5.7L V8 Vortec in the 97 'Burb had a touch of it and the 4.7L V8 IForce engine in my 04 Toyota has it too. Once the engine comes up to operating temperature, the pistons expand and it goes away. When cold, I just take the scenic route out of the neighborhood in 2nd for the first minute or two and things are warm and ready to go when I need to get on it to merge into traffic.

If you are really concerned, start doing engine oil analysis at every 10k (or every other oil change) to establish a trend line. If you do have a problem with rapid piston wear, it'll show up in the analysis plots and you'll have a stronger position with respect to a documentation trail to seek redress from the manufacturer.

Blah

I've been to this site before and heard the clip. I listened to it again, and yes....that's pretty much what they sound like when cold. It's very rare that it lasts much longer then

1-2 minutes.

Ian

70% of the cost of a vehicle is labor?? What the hell have you been smokin'.

Which sand pile have you had your head in???? This is VERY common knowledge in automotive industry and trade news. In 2005 health insurance alone added 1500 dollars to the price of a new GM vehicle. GM is bleed very badly from labor costs and if they do not get them down by 2010 they will be doomed to going out of bussiness because the market will nolonger support the product prices need to continue to support high labot costs as it has reached critical mass.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

But, if the pistons were infact properly sized for bore you would not have to wait for them to heat up and swell to stop rattle. Iy expect to here this in a well wormn engine with many many miles and years of usage on it, not a new one.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

The Expedition is a Ford. They use yardsticks instead of micrometers for measurement. Fords are noisy!

Agreed.

When pistons had skirts, you didn't hear piston knock when the engine was cold. Unfortunately, as usual, you are stuck in the

70's.

Did you take note of the specs I provided? Much tighter tolerances today then in the 70's!

Ian

---------------------

Please support these claims with legitimate information.

As an employee, I can tell you that this is not true. Are you an employee?

I will not waste my time to find something that has been known for over a year now. IF you do not believe it prove it otherwise. The fact that you do not shows you are not well informed. I make it my bussiness to keep track of these things and others. Why do you think GM is spending a fortune on early buyouts? It is because it is cheaper to buy them out than to keep paying them long term. How long do you think they can stay profitable when they average labor cost per man hour (wages, insurance, benifits and paid time off) is over $70/hr??? I know a few guy that own factories that make parts for GM and they want them as cheaply as possible to offset high internal costs but things have reached their limt when SUV and fuel prices rose to current levels. Detriot will not servive long term if they cannot get costs down and quality up. The writting is on the wall for those who choose to see it. .

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

No I am not but you are "stuck" on buying GM's excuse for poor quality and tolerance control that causes this problem. Short skirt or long, they will not slap "IF" fit properly from day one. It is too expensive for GM to fit them properly in each engine and too expensive to fix at dealer so it is now considered "normal" by GM to stem the blood loss but "saying" it is all right does not make it right.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

What the idiot meant to say is: "For some time I have posted mostly BS info on the internet. When questioned about the BS info, I ignore the question and continue to post more BS info.Why would you expect me to stop my usual routine"?

~snip~

I agree that trying to substantiate your statements would be a waste of time, but the real waste of time is in reading your posts. You do, however, have some entertainment value. Keep up the good work.

Dave

Only because you want to believe otherwise. I realy do not care if you do not beleive it as you are free to keep your head in the sand. People that track industry and markets know this so I guess you do neither or do so poorly. Again new car equals 30% raw materail cost

70% labor cost for GM in 2005. I have not seen figures for 2006 yet because they are not out yet. The colapse of the past high profit SUV market has knocked the socks off and put books in red big time. Write it on the wall, GM is either going to bust up labor union wages or bust up company in next 3 to 5 years tops because it cannot survive much longer on credit.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Automotive Design & Production, Nov, 2005 by Erkut Uludag, Stephen Weisenstein Intense price-based competition in the automotive market has led OEMs to launch various initiatives to reduce total costs in an effort to maintain profitability. A key cost element for the OEMs to address after direct material purchases is labor. Labor represents an average of 12 to 15 percent (1) of a vehicle's manufacturing cost in North America. A recent study that Roland Berger Strategy Consultants conducted for a major OEM determined that a 20 percent improvement in hours-per-vehicle (HPV) would save in excess of $800 million annually.

Hmmm.....I guess they should have consulted you before they wrote that. According to you, their 2005 figures are waaay off.

much of an extra cost burden do U.S. manufacturers carry?The National Association of Manufacturers estimated that, when compared toits nine largest trading partners, the U.S. had a 18.3% cost disadvantage:5.6% in corporate tax rates, 5.5% in employee benefits including health careand pension costs, 3.2% in litigation costs, 3.5% in pollution abatementcosts, and 0.5% in rising natural gas prices. When the higher hourly laborcosts of U.S. workers was factored in, the total net cost burden wascalculated at 22.4%.

cost of a automotive manufactured part/product is made up of thefollowing general cost categories: . Raw Materials 50%

. S, G&A* 20%

. Operating Labor 15%

. Maintenance 8%

. Capital Equipment 7%

(S, G & A is a catch all category that includes traditional accounting S, G & A as well

as depreciation and other corporate costs.)

It boggles my mind that "anyone" on this newsgroup would believe a word you say anymore!

Ian