torsion bar adjustment

Why don't you put 200-250lbs in the back and use it like it's supposed too. If you don't want it to be functional like a truck buy an El-Camino.

Hey! I resent that remark. Elkies are very functional as a truck; they're just more comfortable on the track.

Doc

Never driven one. I'd assume it's about as useful as an S10 (burns gas, can barely carry it's own ass etc) Saw a pick of a 59' "elkie" awaiting restoration, pretty good lookin..... I love the 72's nose (same as the Malibu and the chevelle - 1972' 2 door hard top 454 blown = my world)

Somehow,on Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:19:07 GMT, "Sid Port" managed to spout out:

did it on both my 2000 and 2002 3/4 ton trucks for that exact reason. works fine, looks better. I had both done by the dealer before I picked up the vehicles. don't forget to double-check the headlight aim after you have it done.

Mike `02 Silverado 2500HD

you can adjust the torsion bars but you camber will change and you will get tire wear. you would need to have it on an alignment machine to see how far you could go and still keep the camber in spec.

"Jason Comstock" wrote

Not only the camber moves, but toe along with the camber. People often either don't know, or forget that one of the first checks before an alignment is.....ride height. On the Chevy 4x4 trucks, ride height is controlled by....the torsion bars. So if you raise the front end even a smidge with the torsion bars, it's imperative that the front end be at least "checked". I've done plenty of alignments on these trucks, and even a very small amount of torsion bar movement will translate into a lot more movement in the alignment angles then a person might imagine.

I'd suggest the OP just take the truck to a reputable alignment place, and ask them to raise the front to the height that he wants and then check all the alignment angles and adjust as necessary.

Ian

I wouldn't do it. It will cause tire wear, pre-mature ball-joint and TRE wear, vague steering and a rough ride. There's no mechanic in the world who could adjust it properly, they all use 1 of 4 align machines out there and none of them have any specs outside of stock trim height, so once you change the trim height, your screwed as far as alignment goes.

Sid Port wrote:

. . . . . snipped-for-privacy@ma.com (73blazer) I wouldn't do it. It will cause tire wear, pre-mature ball-joint and TRE wear, vague steering and a rough ride. There's no mechanic in the world who could adjust it properly, they all use 1 of 4 align machines out there and none of them have any specs outside of stock trim height, so once you change the trim height, your screwed as far as alignment goes. ============

people like you get fired for giving out bad information.

and that name of yers says a lot about yer technical aptitude.

SID PORT (orig.poster).......... Take Shidens advice....cuz this dude here is lost in his own world.

MarshMonster ~what shiden said..ditto~ ~:~

That's the first thing I did when I got my '93 K1500. It looks nice and level, even when carying 200-250 lbs. in the back.

One thing I've noticed is that the engine is mounted at an angle. When the front of the truck is lower, when it's stock, the engine is perfectly level. When you adjust the front suspension up, the engine gets tilted back, so I've always wondered if that would cause excess strain on the rear seals. ?!?! Just a thought. Still, I haven't noticed anything bad after 50k miles riding that way... It just turned over to 170k.

-Derek

Thanks Marsh, nice name yourself. Look, it's just an opinion, no need to go slammin' up people for rendering it, that's what causes other people to stop posting. My assesment is based on seeing hundreds of these trucks that this has been done too, and the customer is always wondering why his front tires are wearing out at 25,000mi, or he needs tie-rods at 80,000. It's not that bad to do if your willing to deal with some immediate (slight increase in ride roughness, a little more vague steering) and long term (TRE wear, etc..) potential problems. Really all I was saying is that going to an alignment shop after doing this is basically useless, because the machines all are based on stock trim height. So, if you change the trim height, and you proceed to adjust the vehicle to within the spec that the machine says, then your effectivly out of spec. If you can read a book and do some math, you'll come to the same conclustion. In order to do it right, as far as alignment goes, you'd need to write your own specs based on your new trim height, then put it on the machine and adjust it there. The very first thing any decent tech would do is check/adjust the trim height first on these trucks. If it's too high he/she should tell the customer that the trim height is off, and it needs to be put back to spec, otherwise no alignment can be performed unless the customer has thier own specs to align it too. Additionaly, I always wonder why people even want to do this in the first place, it seems more trouble than it's worth.

Ken

Marsh Monster wrote:

Re: torsion bar adjustment Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2003, 7:33am (CST+1) From: snipped-for-privacy@ma.com (73blazer) Thanks Marsh, nice name yourself. Look, it's just an opinion, no need to go slammin' up people for rendering it, that's what causes other people to stop posting. My assesment is based on seeing hundreds of these trucks that this has been done too, and the customer is always wondering why his front tires are wearing out at 25,000mi, or he needs tie-rods at 80,000. It's not that bad to do if your willing to deal with some immediate (slight increase in ride roughness, a little more vague steering) and long term (TRE wear, etc..) potential problems. Really all I was saying is that going to an alignment shop after doing this is basically useless, because the machines all are based on stock trim height. So, if you change the trim height, and you proceed to adjust the vehicle to within the spec that the machine says, then your effectivly out of spec. If you can read a book and do some math, you'll come to the same conclustion. In order to do it right, as far as alignment goes, you'd need to write your own specs based on your new trim height, then put it on the machine and adjust it there. The very first thing any decent tech would do is check/adjust the trim height first on these trucks. If it's too high he/she should tell the customer that the trim height is off, and it needs to be put back to spec, otherwise no alignment can be performed unless the customer has thier own specs to align it too. Additionaly, I always wonder why people even want to do this in the first place, it seems more trouble than it's worth. Ken /////////////////////////////

Ken, apology accepted.

And..........

I don't know what kind of alignment machine you're using....but =BD=B0 camber is =BD=B0 camber... I don''t care what the ride height is. And if the tech doing the alignment can't figure that out by himself.......he needs to change vocations.

as far as the tie-rods.......

Raising the front-end isn't going to affect the angle so drastically as to produce a bind on the tie rods. We're talking a 4 inch lift kit here. And even if we were........

any whooo......

you were wrong in telling the dude not to do it BECAUSE IT COULD NOT BE ALIGNED.

when in fact .....it's a simple deal to do.

marshmonster ~invites Ken to the bar for drink...on Steve's tab~

"73blazer" wrote

My apologies for being blunt, but you are wrong and you don't understand the process of alignment on these trucks. I've measured trucks that have had a "trim height" problem, and they can still be within spec. All that happens is that as you change "trim height" you will have to re-adjust the camber/caster/toe settings. But depending on how high you want to go, and the amount of adjustment you have on the particular truck, you can "easily" bring the front end back into spec.

Where do people come up with this stuff? It's always a wise idea to know what you are talking about before "talking" about it. The uneducated and un-initiated will think that you understand the alignment procedures, but folks that actually do this for a living will call you on your incorrect ideas.

Ian

Thanks for the input guys.

as far as being tilted back - no, it won't hurt a thing - not really enough difference in angle to notice. No different than a guy who asks the life from his truck every day and has the bed packed full of tools and fuel, slouching in the back. There are guys that are in this scenario for the life of the truck, by trade.

Snowman

Yeah, I guess my truck is spoiled, since it sees mostly highway miles as a commuter vehicle. I rarely have anything in the back. I primarily use it just to get back and forth to work, but then on the weekends I need something that's capable of climbing the side of a mountain with 200-300 lbs. of hang gliding gear in the back and on top, and do it several times (up and down) each day. The engine doesn't seem to mind that horrible tilt either! It surprises me, because I would assume that the engine oiling system would have issues with that severe of an angle on the engine. The pressure seems pretty steady at about 20-30.

-Derek

before

height

Ian, I had the front lowered one inch via the torsion bars and the only thing that showed up as out of alignment on the computer alignment machine was the toe. Apparently camber and caster stayed on, or inside of .5 degrees I believe it was. Now I know this machine does not run accurately without good input, but so far all is well.

Hatt

"DJ Hatt" wrote

This is entirely possible....but the fact that the toe went out of adjustment "is" because the camber/caster moved. The caster/camber may have stayed "within" spec, but

+/- spec on caster/camber is fairly liberal. My only point is to warn folks that you cannot just use the torsion bars as a convenient way to lower and raise your front end without knowing the alignment consequences.

Ian