Re: What I want vs. what the reality could support

... and that is *exactly* the kind of misguided 'Homer Simpson' type of thinking that I was talking about. Believe it or not, there are many people out there who think that understeer is A Good Thing.

SNIP

For a start not all cars (especially middle market cars in the 1960's) come with capable drivers.

More seriously you assume a smooth level surface on the road (even less common in the 1960's) - slide into a bump and the wheel will fold under the car.

The fault was relatively easily induced. You did NOT want to be in the car (or near it) when it was.

Some 1960's rear engine RWD cars had nightmare handling - my dad used to put a bag of sand in his Renault 8 back in the 60's to counter this. The Hillman Imp was another tricky one. Whilst Porsche have long since sorted the 911 line's "nervous" or "challenging" handling for normal driving, if they do let go then you are in big trouble.

I never had that happen with my Vitesse, and mine was one of the early ones that were much more prone to it than the better sorted later ones. When it did happen, the wheel did not "fold under the car." There simply wasn't that much travel in the rear suspension. It would ride up onto the edge of the tire, hiking the rear of the car up, and then settle back down.

Why not?

Actually, I always thought that the stock Imp handled pretty well. I think that people used to put bags of sand in the front because there was a perceived, but not real, benefit in reducing the positive camber in the front. Ill informed intuition is often seriously wrong.

Yes, there's also the poor performance. They were slow. Of course, in recent years that has changed some, and you can get them with decent levels of HP.

Even now, the low-spinning, "loads of torque down low and less up top" performance is undesirable, at least from my perspective.

Personally, I don't even care for the new gas turbo motors, where the fad (enabled by modern engine controls) is to give it a table-flat torque curve. I like to feel the torque rise with RPM (to a point).

Much of the American aversion to diesels stems from public perception based on the horrible junk diesel engines that the American car manufacturers came up with in the seventies.

Some of these were really dreadful. There were reworked tractor engine designs with enormous amounts of inertia. And then there was the Oldsmobile engine that was a reworked gasoline engine block that was totally unable to handle the high compression it was asked to handle.

These cars were all just so awful that, decades later, Americans still won't even think about diesels.

Try one of the BMW diesels. They're not like you'd expect at all. However, BMW can't sell the damn things in the US because Americans won't buy diesels.

--scott

Yes, I believe you, judging by the fact that there are few affordable rear wheel drivers these days and most of the surviving ones have the engine in front.

because the big three tried to sell them tractors in disguise

30something years ago... it kind of makes sense

that and the pricing of the bmw 335d, unavailability of 330d, and the gearing of the refineries in the states which in turn could stem from the freeway- legal tractor sale fiasco of the 70s,

let me know if the picture still misses any pieces

=C2=A0However,

One thing not raised or that I might have missed is many American gas stations do not sell diesel and only have gasoline pumps. For example, in my area, arguably the cheapest gas is usually found at Costco. Costco only sells regular and premium gasoline. No diesel. This lack of infrastructure, combined with the previously mentioned negative points - smelly, dirty, loud, slow - all combine to bias diesel gas.

However, that might be changing and the Euro car mfrs are leading the way. The latest diesel offerings from BMW, MB, Audi and VW are all coming out with fast, quiet and efficient diesel cars. That 335d is a sweet car. Too bad it doesn't have a manual tranny. Similarly, BMW offers a nice 1 Series 4 door hatchback in Europe with either a 2.0 liter(120d) or 2.3liter (123d) diesel that suppose to be the bomb. Alas, its not available in the US - how short sighted....

That 335d is a

Actually, the 123d is a 2.0 litre

SNIP

way. The latest diesel offerings from BMW, MB, Audi and VW are all coming out with fast, quiet and efficient diesel cars. That 335d is a sweet car. Too bad it doesn't have a manual tranny.

Well a manual transmission might have been desirable on a diesel when automatics were three speed, wasted lots of energy in the torque converter and you could get substantially better performance [and economy] out of a four or preferably five speed manual*.

Nowadays BMW autos are 6 or even 8 speed and for a diesel it will be a rare driver, if any, who could do better in a manual.

My first two 7 series were 5 speed manual, however they became rarer (735il only on E32) and then non existent (E38), so my last three have all been auto (4 speed, 5 speed switchable and now steptronic).

• my last two cars before BMW's were Rover SD1's. These both had excellent

5sp manuals. The auto was a rubbish 3sp unit, which thrashed the nuts out of the engine at speed [literally if you unwary] and in which top was the same ratio as 4th in the manual

Thanks, I didn't realize that a 2.0 liter twin turbo diesel could put out 295 ft-lb of torque! Good Luck!

My last petrol turbo car produced max torque between 2,500 rpm and 4,500 rpm, but the max power was developed at 5,700 rpm. But that car *really* came alive after 5,000 rpm, well past peak torque.

My experiments with accelerometers have demonstrated that the greatest 'g' (or acceleration) was produced between the peak torque rpm and the peak power rpm.

Today's BMWs usually have six speed manual transmissions that are easy to shift and maintain, i.e., changing manual transmission fluid every

30K miles or so is a very simple job and it doesn't have the problematic reputation of BMW's auto transmissions. 7 Series are very nice cars. However, it is cater towards the high end buyer who only seem to want automatic transmissions.

With the cost of today's BMWs, hopefully, these 6 and 8 speed automatic transmissions have improved enough to last beyond 100K miles. Good Luck!

Or in the middle.

In some European countries diesels account for more than half of all sales. Even in the previously suspicious-of-diesel UK sales are now very high.

More and more sporty cars are coming out with diesel engines.

It is still a case of horses for courses. For low-mileage drives diesel is not worthwhile, especially as its price in the UK is higher than petrol/gasoline.

DAS

I also have a perception that they don't work as well in colder climates - because they are so efficient, they are slow to warm up and the heaters have poor output.

êàêèå õîðîøèå ñîáåñåäíèêè :)

The heater is electrically assisted with heating elements in the system in the E90 diesels.

áîëüøîå âàì ñïàñèáî çà íåîáõîäèìóþ èíôîðìàöèþ.