Beware the EV car test drive...

snip

Possibly - probably even. But they're still way beyond my means.

+1

I think now is about a good time to leap into the new EV market. However I'm normally around the ~10yo point in the market, and those (eg 2011-13 Leaf for £5-7K) have early-adopter issues. They've mostly been ironed out in current cars (range is much better, battery management better, etc), but if you're in the used market you have to deal not only with new-technology issues they had from new, but 'old banger' reliability issues on top of them (and a different class of troubles from 'rusty exhaust' that everyone's familiar with).

That's not to say I wouldn't think about an elderly Leaf if a good one came up at the right price, it might just need a bit more TLC than you'd expect from an EV. Although that TLC is more in the case of being careful about how you charge it, rather than it needing garage attention, so isn't necessarily costly to do.

I drove a 2014 Leaf and wasn't hugely impressed - it's sluggish for an EV, although lack of performance wouldn't bother me that much. I'm sure a new one would be night and day different.

Theo

I've never spent more than £3000 on a car. It lasted me 10 years. But I did buy 65k mile "donor" for £150 to keep it in parts. When it was scrapped "donor" got all her bits back. Just needs some weld applying to hide the 6m of yellow chalk and an engine that has big end bearings (it only had 2L of brown slurry for 'coolant', I've only found 7 of the 8 half shells...).

So I bought 2 more for £1400 each (daily driver and Sunday best). I've had one of them 12 years and the other 10. Couldn't buy them now, I've seen people asking over £5k for them, maybe 20 are presented for sale each year. None on pistonheads, wanted ads on carandclassic, asking £6K for completely ruined (no interior) "drift" cars on gumtree and e-bay. One has a tube front end, the inner wings forward of the strut towers have been cut out and a 197 bhp N/A I6 has replaced the 170bhp I4 turbo (seems like a lot of work for 27 bhp). My typical MOT welding bill is around £300 so I'm just about breaking even.

I suspect EVs having lots of copper in the motor and batteries that can be recycled into home power banks will have a higher end of life value than ICE cars. Early Leaf has 24Kwh and even if 2nd hand batteries reduced to a bargain £20/kwh it's battery is worth £480. You would be lucky to get £100 for a scrap car at present. This advert will buy wrecks/write offs Nissan Leaf for £2k.

ebay is £275/cell (1.25kWh) at the moment, or £5750 for the whole battery. So it's actually cheaper to buy a used Leaf than it is to buy batteries at this point.

Theo

No doubt tempered by the fact that electric vehicles have a very unfair advantage, given the fuel isn't taxed in the same way as others. For the moment. I've no doubt when they become the norm, many will look back to the good old days of the Morris Minor which was cheap and easy to keep running.

Not something that worries those who can afford a nice new car regularly though. And do wonder what your current vehicle is you find so unattractive?

It?s not a bad car, but after driving an EV an ordinary cars seems akin to a Shackleton bomber. "10,000 loose rivets flying in close formation". An EV just highlights the absurdity of IC engines.

Tim

But is this range figure a true operating range or is it similar to the miles per litre figures for petrol cars which are somewhat fictional?

Is the manufacturers range figure for a stripped down car, only the driver, not using the cabin heater or air con, utilising a brand new battery from fully charge right down to zero charge (which is not the recommended usage), only on a level road with no hills, constant speed etc.?

Kia have a reputation for being much more honest than many manufacturers.

Tim

Do you not have the internet?

NEDC autonomy WLTP autonomy Decrease Renualt Zoé 400 km 300 km 25 % BMW i3 300 km 245 km 18% Hyundai Kona électrique 64 kWh 546 km 482 km 12%

"Considering electric-car range estimates, for example, the 2018 Nissan Leaf gets a 151-mile range rating from the EPA. Under old European standards, it was estimated at 235.5 miles of range. Under the WLTP tests, it is expected to be rated at 167.7 miles."

Yes, I'm sure. But even putting the cost aside, charging is likely to remain an issue for many. So IC remains the only realistic choice for them.

Not for you, though, obvs

(apologies for replying directly earlier - getting used to Thunderbird's special ways . . . )

Had me a few times...

You can edit the menu so "Followup" is first on the list before "Reply" for USENET.

Don't ask me how, it was over 3 years ago that I made this change.

All well and good until you get stranded in a snow storm or traffic jamb and you run out of power . May be in twenty years but not now

Never been stranded in a snow storm in 46 years of driving despite having lived for a good time in the NE of Scotland. Yes, it is something to think about but I?m not sure that for most people it needs to be high on their list of things to worry about if their EV has a decent battery capacity and a heat-pump based heating system.

Tim

Real world test at motorway speeds. Fast forward to 25 min.

Tim

Perfectly possible to make an IC engined car quiet. Or to make the noise it makes attractive - at least to some.

And if you have a super quiet engine, road roar and wind noise just becomes more apparent.

To provide a fair comparison, you'd have to look at a brand new IC engined car that costs the same as that EV.

I know, I had a very nice Jag V6 for a while. Doesn?t alter the fact that a modern IC engine is a hideously complex beast that requires a huge amount of ancillary equipment to make it drivable and less polluting. They no longer float my boat. Your mileage my differ.

Tim

Won't ever happen, unless you are just as stupid as the guy that sets out with 1/5th tank of petrol .... cos they only put a tenner at a time in it. With an efficient heat pump heater you only need about 3/4Kw/h.

12 hours = 8Kw (£1) about 30 miles of your range. An ICE will idle though 1 l/h, 12 hours = 12 litres (£13) 70-100 miles of your range.

The big plus is you don't have to keep getting out every 20-30 min and letting the heat out. Maybe by climbing out the window when the snow is up the doors so you can't open them. Then dig your way to the back of the car and dig a big hole to let the exhaust escape. Now, did you remember to pack that shovel and 2 sleeping bags for each person? The paper recycling bag so you can insulate the floor? Probably not if you forgot to charge the car or fill the tank.

Or you make the choice between switching off the engine so you freeze to death and just sitting there waiting to die from carbon monoxide poisoning. zzzzz _______ (flatline)

When the snow is over the windows and roof everyone has the same problem.

I wonder how a Morris Minor would stack up today. It might be simple, but you'd have a lot more visits to the garage (assuming you don't DIY, which most people won't or can't) At £50-100/hour it doesn't exactly come cheap to keep something like that on the road.

Plus a new Morris Minor would have to come with all the emissions and safety complexity that weren't needed back then, making it less cheap and DIY friendly.

Theo

Modern cars are far more easy to keep running.

I don't have a single grease point on the chassis. You might not remember what happens to a Morris Minor if you neglect the greasing of the front suspension. I've seen one sometime in the last decade with its front wheel flopped out of the arch and lying dead on the road.

I haven't changed a set of points for 20 years. I don't use a timing light any more, just put the sensor back on the mark after a cam belt change.

It's maybe 25 years since I checked a float level on a carb. Or stripped and cleaned the jets in a carb.

Spark plugs that last 60K miles instead of 5K.

Oil and filter change is no more difficult that it was on old cars.

If you buy FWD you will need new CV gaiters at some time. RWD mine are still good at 196K miles and 27 years old. I had to replace a steering rack gaiter last year, I did the job twice as the 27 year old one I took from spares failed quite quickly.